https://youlookfab.com/welookfab/topic/interesting-dermatologyskincare-blog Style Advice for Fashion Lovers en-US Sun, 10 May 2026 19:28:41 +0000 http://bbpress.org/?v=1.0.2 q https://youlookfab.com/welookfab/search.php https://youlookfab.com/welookfab/topic/interesting-dermatologyskincare-blog#post-56960 Sat, 28 Mar 2009 15:23:36 +0000 shiny 56960@https://youlookfab.com/welookfab/ <p>Water - I drink a ton of it, and always have. I am constantly thirsty. I always have to have water handy. I don't count my glasses though - I just drink if I'm thirsty. Which is .... always.</p> <p>My skin - is combo skin... it can get very dry, especially in the winter, but the T-zone area can get oily. You probably notice a sheen to my face in my photos! That is the oily parts. I rarely have breakouts though and it's always been that way, even as a teen. At most, I will get one enormous zit once a month (hormonally and stress related). The oily parts don't bother me so much as the dry parts, so I am content to "shine" a little ... I am Shiny afterall. :-)</p> <p>Pores - I have gigantic pores, particularly on my forehead and nose. I think they have gotten larger as I've gotten older. You could drive a truck through my pores. But strangely, when I use Biore, nothing gross comes out. So I don't have blackheads at all. Although sometimes the wrong moisturizer can clog up my pores - it will look like whiteheads but it's not really; it's moisturizer stuck in my large pores!</p> <p>Eczema - I don't have eczema; I have psorasis. I've had it since I was a child; it runs in my family (my dad and brother also have it). It comes and goes. Right now it's mostly in remission; what tiny areas I get, are easily controlled with Rx I have. When it flares up, it can last for a long, long time and be very stubborn. It itches like crazy and is gross to look at, and it can cause secondary bacteria infections that are probably the worst thing about it. It is not caused by any soaps or diet or anything else like that. For me, the trigger is always, always STRESS. Major life stress, not the good kind of stress. For example right after my divorce I had nasty flare-up that lasted for over five years. </p> <p>Skin-care routine - as a teen and through to my 30s, I kept my skin-care routine very, very simple. I'd use plain old, antibacterial soap to wash my face, and then apply Oil of Olay with SPF. That was it. No exfoliating, no expensive moisturizers, no fancy soaps. In fact, most fancy soaps would give me breakouts. I can't even use Cetaphil - it made me itch and breakout. The worst soap is Ivory. I never understood how people could like Cetaphil and Ivory. Glycerin soaps are okay though. But I always return to something basic and antibacterial, like Lever. </p> <p>However as I've gotten older (late 30s) my skin has changed and I have a slightly more complicated routine now. I still wash my face with antibacterial soap, as directed by my doctor. Except in the winter I am more apt to use the olive oil instead, since my skin gets so dry. I still use the antibacterial soap once a week though. And now I exfloliate regularly too - it really makes a difference. </p> <p>Plus, I've been using richer moisturizers. At present moment DH and I have been sharing a Lancome moisturizer that has antiaging stuff in it, and we both like it very much. I don't know if it's making us look any younger, but it's very rich yet not oily and it sure feels nice. It also makes a great base for foundation. </p> https://youlookfab.com/welookfab/topic/interesting-dermatologyskincare-blog#post-56939 Sat, 28 Mar 2009 10:43:46 +0000 Ariadne 56939@https://youlookfab.com/welookfab/ <p>Lots of great information here--thanks ladies! </p> <p>Angie, I'm 28. I also have no interest in wearing lots of makeup--I'd rather have good skin. I've heard, though, that steaming is actually very bad for skin...? I can't remember where I heard this but I know it was from source that seemed reliable.</p> <p>Maybe I should think about looking into a dermatologist too. I always thought that was only for super-severe conditions, but maybe not? </p> https://youlookfab.com/welookfab/topic/interesting-dermatologyskincare-blog#post-56891 Sat, 28 Mar 2009 02:04:03 +0000 Lena 56891@https://youlookfab.com/welookfab/ <p>Tanya made excellent points. </p> <p>The thing about Differin is it's a synthetic retinoid and causes less irritation (it depends on the person, though). And it doesn't degrade in sunlight unlike Retin-A. On the other hand, it may also not be as effective as Retin-A. I use it for rosacea because Retin-A is too strong for me. Retinoids in general have lots of benefits, like Tanya mentioned. They can reduce hyperpigmentation, inflammation (if you find the right formula and dosage), they can improve and regulate cell turnover and shape of your pores. </p> <p>And sunscreen is absolutely essential with retinoids. The stronger, the better. </p> https://youlookfab.com/welookfab/topic/interesting-dermatologyskincare-blog#post-56866 Sat, 28 Mar 2009 00:58:24 +0000 Tanya 56866@https://youlookfab.com/welookfab/ <p>Brianna, those are two different things, as you say. Salicylic acid is an exfoliant, a chemical one. There are two types of those: alpha hydroxy acids that are generally better suited for dry/normal skin ( since they are water soluble) and beta hydroxy acid ( salycilic) which is better suited for oily skin like yours and mine because they are lipid soluble. Benzoyl peroxide kills bacteria that cause acne. Acne prone skin needs both. Oily skin with blackheads needs just the first.</p> <p>As for Differin, it is in the same group as prescription retinoids. I am actually using one of them, Retin-A-Micro and am very pleased with it. It does cause some initial skin peeling and sun sensitivity, so you only use it a night and a good sunscreen is a must ( I will try the one you mention, am yet to find one I really like). The extra benefit is that these creams are the only scientifically proven ones to diminish wrinkles, since they stimulate collagen production. A lot of women use them for that purpose, but of course you can only get your insurance company to cover the prescription ( which is very expensive btw) if it is for medical purposes ( acne) as opposed to cosmetical (wrinkles).</p> <p>I'll stop before I start sounding like an encyclopedia or a mad scientist:) Feel free to ask whatever further interests you on this topic, I have spent a lot of time researching it.</p> <p>Btw, I have tried Paula's 2% BHA too ( which one are you getting, lotion or gel) and I did like it, but like Neutrogena's better. It is a bit more soothing for my skin and I like the texture better too. It has the same amount of BHA as Paula's but it's cheaper, so it's a win-win thing for me. </p> https://youlookfab.com/welookfab/topic/interesting-dermatologyskincare-blog#post-56858 Sat, 28 Mar 2009 00:43:23 +0000 Angie 56858@https://youlookfab.com/welookfab/ <p>Bri, once you find yourself a fabulous esthetician, you’ll be sold. It makes the world of difference. </p> <p>Your face needs to be steamed so that the impurities can be extracted, especially if you’re oily. The facial massage stimulates blood vessels and gives you that healthy glow, AND the prescription strength alpha hydroxy acids that they use are excellent. Very pore size reducing.These aren’t things that you can do at home. Remind me of your age, Bri? You’ll probably appreciate this more as you get older. But I’m all about skin care and not makeup. I don’t go in for spa treatments of any kind – only facials. Keeps the skin looking dewy if I stick to my Vaseline-intensive routine! I hear you on the budget thing though. </p> https://youlookfab.com/welookfab/topic/interesting-dermatologyskincare-blog#post-56838 Fri, 27 Mar 2009 22:57:26 +0000 Maya 56838@https://youlookfab.com/welookfab/ <p>I'm with you Brianna. If I'm going to use a natural product that doesn't work, what's the point of using it at all? And you're definitely right to continue with your Certain Dri. I was foolish enough to bring a natural deodorant with me on my study abroad. Not a good idea. </p> <p>I would definitely like to try a natural soap though. I find it very curious that I have oily skin on my face and yet on the rest of my body, my skin is often dry and itchy. I read recently that eczema rates have skyrocketed and commercial soaps are often to blame. I have no doubt that a natural soap would be better for my skin, but would it actually have any cleansing function? Anyone know? </p> https://youlookfab.com/welookfab/topic/interesting-dermatologyskincare-blog#post-56808 Fri, 27 Mar 2009 21:08:13 +0000 Ariadne 56808@https://youlookfab.com/welookfab/ <p>I use the Biore strips and even though they do pull out a lot of gunk, I still have noticeable blackheads afterwards, even after using the extra-deep-cleaning strips 2x per week for 2 months. I ordered one of Paula's Choice chemical exfoliants (the 2% BHA one) and I am hoping that will help. I'lll look into the Neutrogena stuff too, Tanya, and the Differin if those don't do the trick. Tanya, how weird that that Neutrogena stuff is billed as an acne treatment. Why do the terms acne and blackheads get used interchangeably? They're not the same thing! Blackheads need salicylic acid; acne needs benzoyl peroxide. I normally try to stick to very simple, natural products but some things just need more oomph. I'd never give up my Certain Dri, for example.</p> <p>Angie, facials are not in the budget for me and honestly I'm not sure I'm sold on them. I know you are--can you elaborate? I have considered a 20-minute, $40 "nose cleanup" special that a local spa offers. It's not a huge chunk of cash (though I'd rather spend it on shoes or a bag) so it MIGHT be worth a try.</p> <p>One thing I found that I LOVE is my Peter Thomas Roth Uber-Dry Sunscreen, SPF 30. It's the only sunscreen I've ever used that doesn't either turn my face into an oil slick or attract water like crazy (some products really do do this to my skin--I end up with little water droplets all over my face). It gets a great safety ranking according to the EWG's Cosmetics Safety Database, too. </p> https://youlookfab.com/welookfab/topic/interesting-dermatologyskincare-blog#post-56800 Fri, 27 Mar 2009 20:31:08 +0000 Inge 56800@https://youlookfab.com/welookfab/ <p>Ah thank you Maya and Tanya for all the extra info!</p> <p>I'm like Angie and Maya, I just don't get thirsty often. And I completely agree: we should all listen to our own bodies, it doesn't make sense to generalize about water intake etc.</p> <p>And Angie I must admit I am a little envious of your 'dewy' skin. No matter what I do, mine refuses to be dewy;-) </p> https://youlookfab.com/welookfab/topic/interesting-dermatologyskincare-blog#post-56772 Fri, 27 Mar 2009 17:56:22 +0000 Maya 56772@https://youlookfab.com/welookfab/ <p>Kari, Biore strips do get the grime out for me. I usually just stare at them for a solid minute after removing them because I can't believe how many little black things are on them. It's pretty gross. I started out using them once a week because I had a lot of dirt to get out, but after a little while I just went down to once every two weeks. When I wrinkle up my nose it looks like the surface of the moon. It's actually quite unnerving to see. Luckily this isn't a gesture I make too often though, unless I'm trying to demonstrate how big my pores are I was thinking of getting a nice astringent or cold cream or something to make them smaller, and even building a skin care regimen, but I am just not a high maintenance person and I don't need to add to my list of continuous expenses. I'm young enough to get away with it for now. A cleanser and a bit of SPF moisturizer is all I need. </p> https://youlookfab.com/welookfab/topic/interesting-dermatologyskincare-blog#post-56732 Fri, 27 Mar 2009 14:21:23 +0000 anne 56732@https://youlookfab.com/welookfab/ <p>On drinking water - I happen to be a huge water drinker. When I was a baby in a very hot part of Australia I got through bottles of water at night. I still drink more water than almost anyone I know (Also heaps of tea) People do tell me that I have nice skin.</p> <p>I share Maya's feelings about people overestimating the need for protein, and had intended to write on this last time it came up on YLF. While I am not a vegetarian, let alone a vegan, I get annoyed by the many diets around advocating large amounts of meat being consumed - A popular one in Australia recently was the CSIRO diet. An otherwise quite reasonable, achievable diet, though a bit low on carbs for my liking. It prescribed 300g (10oz) of meat a day - I can feed my family of five on that!</p> <p>I was brought up by a Mum quite influenced by a the More-with-less cookbook - I don't know how well known this was in the 70's and 80's, but the central thesis was reducing needless protein consumption in the interests of feeding the world.</p> <p>So though we aren't vegetarian, we eat that no meat meals regularly, and quite often use just a small amount of meat to add taste. While I can't generalise from my experience I can say that no one in my family while I was growing up with less meat than average (and commensurately, with plenty of carbs) was overweight. </p> https://youlookfab.com/welookfab/topic/interesting-dermatologyskincare-blog#post-56713 Fri, 27 Mar 2009 08:26:31 +0000 Asha 56713@https://youlookfab.com/welookfab/ <p>I just wanted to say I agree with many of you about drinking to thirst. I feel like one of our main problems as Americans is we've lost touch with our bodies - we're not in tune with our physical needs. So people rely on rules like "8 glasses of water a day" or buying artificial fat-free foods so they can binge on them - instead of drinking to thirst and eating real food to hunger. I really think we've become so far removed from our own bodies that we try to rely on these arbitrary precepts to resolve the health issues we (as a nation) have, rather than preventing the health issues themselves with being sensible and using moderation and physical intuition to begin with. </p> https://youlookfab.com/welookfab/topic/interesting-dermatologyskincare-blog#post-56689 Fri, 27 Mar 2009 04:56:55 +0000 Kari 56689@https://youlookfab.com/welookfab/ <p>Maya, do Biore strips actually make a difference for you? I have large pores &#38; blackheads as well, but when I tried Biore strips it felt like I hardly get anything out. I'm wondering how frequently you need to use them for it to make a difference?</p> <p>Differin gel has worked much better for me - but it's by prescription. </p> https://youlookfab.com/welookfab/topic/interesting-dermatologyskincare-blog#post-56687 Fri, 27 Mar 2009 04:51:43 +0000 Angie 56687@https://youlookfab.com/welookfab/ <p>Great info. (Thanks, Tanya). </p> <p>Shana, it’s as if you read my mind. Cheers to having the same thoughts! Unlike Bri, I am seldom thirsty. I guess that plays a role.</p> <p>I feel I need to say that even though I go on and on about having dry facial skin, I was actually blessed with good skin. It looks moisturized, smooth and dewy. BUT! It’s not without rigorous effort. That’s my point. And if I let my skin routine slide, it’s noticeable. </p> <p>Bri, do you have facials? </p> https://youlookfab.com/welookfab/topic/interesting-dermatologyskincare-blog#post-56686 Fri, 27 Mar 2009 04:49:59 +0000 Tanya 56686@https://youlookfab.com/welookfab/ <p>Hi Brianna, I have the same skin type as you The best thing I have found is to use a product with salicylic acid for exfoliation on daily basis. It has really made a difference for me. Of course, it has to have the right pH, as you probably know if you read Paula's stuff. </p> <p>I have been using this one by Neutrogena for quite a while, both in the morning and evening after cleansing and before moisturizer, and am very happy with it:</p> <p><a href="http://www.drugstore.com/qxp163358_333181_sespider/neutrogena_oil_free/oil_free_acne_stress_control_3_in_1_hydrating_acne_treatment.htm" rel="nofollow">http://www.drugstore.com/qxp16.....atment.htm</a> </p> https://youlookfab.com/welookfab/topic/interesting-dermatologyskincare-blog#post-56685 Fri, 27 Mar 2009 04:48:29 +0000 Maya 56685@https://youlookfab.com/welookfab/ <p>Brianna, I'm not sure. I was just looking up the info as a refresher and decided to copy and paste it. I knew too much protein was bad for you but couldn't remember why. Anyway there were some annotations that I can go back and check. </p> <p>I also have problems with blackheads and I have huge pores. I use Biore strips every few weeks but man are they painful to remove! </p> https://youlookfab.com/welookfab/topic/interesting-dermatologyskincare-blog#post-56681 Fri, 27 Mar 2009 04:39:58 +0000 Ariadne 56681@https://youlookfab.com/welookfab/ <p>I'm one of those people who's always drinking water, but I've always been that way--I'm thirsty most of the time. I love my water. I don't think it makes any difference to my skin or whatever though. And I just drink tap water (filtered through a Brita most of the time). Never bottled!</p> <p>Hey Maya, are those quotes about protein from John Robbins (one of my personal heroes) by any chance? ITA by the way.</p> <p>I ordered a couple of products from Paual's Choice this week, coincidentally. We'll see how they are. I've been thinking of starting a skincare thread to talk specifically about some of this stuff. My skin issues are the opposite--my skin is quite oily, and I have persistent blackheads below the skin on my nose that will not die. I have no clue what to do about those. </p> https://youlookfab.com/welookfab/topic/interesting-dermatologyskincare-blog#post-56679 Fri, 27 Mar 2009 04:27:23 +0000 Maya 56679@https://youlookfab.com/welookfab/ <p>That's what I mean Shana. The truth is that Americans generally have a poor diet to begin with, so why worry selectively about those two things?</p> <p>Here's a good summary of the truth about protein:</p> <p>"The Recommended Dietary Daily Allowance for both men and women is 0.8 grams of protein for every kilogram (2.2 pounds) of body weight. People with special needs (such as pregnant women) are advised to get a little more.</p> <p>Vegans should not worry about getting enough protein; if you eat a reasonably varied diet and ingest sufficient calories, you will undoubtedly get enough protein. Protein deficiency, or "kwashiorkor," is very rare in the U.S. and is usually diagnosed in people living in countries suffering from famine.</p> <p>By contrast, eating too much animal protein has been directly linked to the formation of kidney stones and has been associated with cancer of the colon and liver."</p> <p>Loads of protein can be found in legumes, veggies, and soy products. There is no reason for anyone in a developed country to worry about getting enough protein, regardless of dietary restrictions. If anything, the worry should be getting too much. If you ask me, people need to worry much more about not getting enough fruit and veggies. I think it's easy to be concerned about protein when protein sources are tasty meat and dairy products. It's a lot more convenient to ignore the real source of problems in our diet, which are a lack of fresh food like fruits and vegetables, and an overload of processed junk food. I hate to sound so preachy about this but it is something that I am genuinely concerned about. Problems related to poor diet are getting worse and worse and will cost us all--not just monetarily but in a lot of terrible ways. I'm not a health food freak by any stretch, and I don't believe deprivation is a good strategy. I just believe in moderation.</p> <p>OK let me get back to the subject; I also believe diet and nutrition undoubtedly play a role in skin and hair. I don't think there is any question about that. I just wouldn't put so much stock in drinking a certain amount of water. Drink it when you're thirsty and leave it at that. Angie, bottled water is a complete scam. I only buy it when it's extremely hot and I am extremely desperate and thirsty, but in general it is terrible for the environment and a complete waste of money. </p> https://youlookfab.com/welookfab/topic/interesting-dermatologyskincare-blog#post-56675 Fri, 27 Mar 2009 04:09:30 +0000 Tanya 56675@https://youlookfab.com/welookfab/ <p>No problem Angie, I posted my comment on the Vaseline blog post. </p> https://youlookfab.com/welookfab/topic/interesting-dermatologyskincare-blog#post-56673 Fri, 27 Mar 2009 03:57:22 +0000 shana 56673@https://youlookfab.com/welookfab/ <p>Another Paula fan here. I have a couple of her books and like her no-nonsense, fact-based advice. Of course, I would trust her more if she just remained a consumer advocate and didn't hawk her own line of skin-care/cosmetics. </p> <p>Angie, we've had this discussion about water before. I am another person who believes that you should drink to thirst rather than by some arbitrary rule. You can actually get water poisoning if you drink too much - this almost happened to me in my early twenties when I went on a water drinking binge because I thought it was healthy. I started feeling really dizzy and nauseous (never mind the gazillion trips I had to make to the restroom). Just like everything in life, there's got to be a balance. </p> <p>Maya, I can understand the concern over nutrition to some degree. So many people eat so poorly that despite getting tons of calories, they are nutritionally starved. And so many people decide to go vegetarian or vegan - especially teenagers - on a whim without making sure that they have balanced diets with adequate protein to make up for the lack of meats/dairy. While I don't believe that drinking tons of water will make your skin smooth &#38; supple, I do believe that eating a nutritious healthy diet with good fats, lean protein, fruits, veggies etc will probably have a huge impact on your body as whole, including your skin. </p> https://youlookfab.com/welookfab/topic/interesting-dermatologyskincare-blog#post-56664 Fri, 27 Mar 2009 03:01:38 +0000 Lena 56664@https://youlookfab.com/welookfab/ <p>Tanya, I'm also a fan of Paula's for the same reasons you mentioned. </p> https://youlookfab.com/welookfab/topic/interesting-dermatologyskincare-blog#post-56660 Fri, 27 Mar 2009 02:47:36 +0000 Angie 56660@https://youlookfab.com/welookfab/ <p>Thanks, Maya. I seem to be doing the cosmetic part right. They even mention using petroleum jelly. HA! </p> <p>Inge, I don’t drink much water either. There is absolutely no proof that it’s good for you. I know this is not going to go down well, but I’ve voiced this opinion before, so it might not be such a blow. I never carry around water, and I deliberately DO NOT support the sale of bottled water. I guess my body needs a lot less fluid. </p> <p>Tanya, thanks for that. Would you mind popping this info on the blog post itself? </p> https://youlookfab.com/welookfab/topic/interesting-dermatologyskincare-blog#post-56604 Thu, 26 Mar 2009 18:34:03 +0000 Tanya 56604@https://youlookfab.com/welookfab/ <p>Hi Inge, I have to say that I am Paola Begoun devotee. I have been reading her site/books for years. I really like the fact that she does all of her reviews based on SCIENTIFIC facts and research. Of course, so many people hate her when she states that scientifically none of the outrageous claims they make about their products are true. But I have been following her recommendations and choosing almost all of skin care products ( and make-up and hair products too) based on her picks. I am very pleased with them, and it doesn't hurt at all than most of those come from drugstore in this economy. </p> https://youlookfab.com/welookfab/topic/interesting-dermatologyskincare-blog#post-56601 Thu, 26 Mar 2009 18:26:20 +0000 Maya 56601@https://youlookfab.com/welookfab/ <p>Inge, one of the above articles debunks the idea that drinking more water hydrates your skin.</p> <p>I also found that when I was in Europe, all of my American friends were having nervous breakdowns because of the lack of regular water availability. I did not feel this stress at all because I just don't drink as much as they would, and I guess a lot of Europeans do not either. </p> <p>Americans are a very strange breed in general. They tend to pick and choose their nutritional battles, often with no basis on reality. If I sound critical it's because I am. I can't tell you how many people here worry irrationally about getting enough protein and enough water. Protein is not an elusive nutrient. Anyone living in a developed nation, even a strict vegan, is probably getting more than enough protein. In fact, too much protein can be quite bad for your health. And as for water, I am not entirely clear where the "8 glasses a day" myth came from, but this is also false and also unhealthy. How much water you need depends on your individual body and needs. Forcing yourself to drink water just to make it to the 8 glass mark is unhealthy not to mention uncomfortable. I do fine with 2 glasses a day (not counting the many of cups of tea I have--and they do count, by the way). I have never had a problem with dry skin or dehydration. I drink one glass with dinner and one glass after I go on a walk. In the summer, when it's hotter and I am more active, I drink more to cool off, but that's it. When I tell people this they look at me like I have two heads but I seem to be in reasonably good health.</p> <p>That was quite a ramble, but it's something that I often get fed up with.</p> <p>I'm not sure how objective these blogs are in choosing products, but the advice is usually worth considering. </p> <p>Personally, I do well with some $3 drug store brand cleanser and another drug store brand SPF moisturizer. I spend about 2 minutes on my face every day. It's just not something I think about much right now. Maybe I will as I get older. </p> https://youlookfab.com/welookfab/topic/interesting-dermatologyskincare-blog#post-56518 Thu, 26 Mar 2009 14:04:35 +0000 Inge 56518@https://youlookfab.com/welookfab/ <p>Thank you Maya! I'm going to have a closer look at this asap.</p> <p>I'm one of those people who don't drink much (too little?) at all, and I do wonder if this is making my dry skin worse. Opinions differ on this and research is not conclusive...</p> <p>I always wonder too how objective these blogs and websites really are (even cosmeticscop - I had never heard of her before yesterday, but I get the impression that Paula Begoun is considered a trustworthy source?). They all recommend different products and brands and often contradict each other.</p> <p>I guess skin care is no different than clothes: it's all a matter of trial and error, everybody's skin is different, so one perfect product/brand for everyone doesn't exist. </p> https://youlookfab.com/welookfab/topic/interesting-dermatologyskincare-blog#post-56490 Thu, 26 Mar 2009 05:35:09 +0000 Maya 56490@https://youlookfab.com/welookfab/ <p>I found this by sheer luck but it has a lot of useful info. Here are some links that are relevant to the dry skin post:</p> <p><a href="http://thedermblog.com/2008/01/17/skin-care-myths-drinking-more-water-will-hydrate-your-skin/" rel="nofollow">http://thedermblog.com/2008/01.....your-skin/</a></p> <p><a href="http://thedermblog.com/2008/01/12/should-i-use-a-lotion-or-a-cream-for-dry-skin/" rel="nofollow">http://thedermblog.com/2008/01.....-dry-skin/</a></p> <p><a href="http://thedermblog.com/2008/12/05/get-the-most-out-of-your-moisturizer-and-save-money/" rel="nofollow">http://thedermblog.com/2008/12.....ave-money/</a> </p>