https://youlookfab.com/welookfab/topic/for-the-non-mothers-long-but-heartfelt Style Advice for Fashion Lovers en-US Wed, 22 Apr 2026 19:28:45 +0000 http://bbpress.org/?v=1.0.2 q https://youlookfab.com/welookfab/search.php https://youlookfab.com/welookfab/topic/for-the-non-mothers-long-but-heartfelt#post-1700425 Sat, 23 Jul 2016 04:11:59 +0000 Ledonna N. 1700425@https://youlookfab.com/welookfab/ <p>Such a touching and thoughtful thread. I read ever single response. I have no childern by happenstance. At 42 it will not happen for me nor do I want it to. Most new to ,e people say it can and will just give it time as if I'm missing something in my life. Lol. I support whatever decision we choose to make as women. It is our job to uplift and not be so critical. Thank you for sharing this and adding to the collective. </p> https://youlookfab.com/welookfab/topic/for-the-non-mothers-long-but-heartfelt#post-1697674 Tue, 19 Jul 2016 19:31:15 +0000 rachylou 1697674@https://youlookfab.com/welookfab/ <p>You know, it's interesting. I'm not sure the miracles of modern science convince the alligator mind. In many ways they are extraordinary measures...interventions, luxuries. And healthcare access is very problematic in the US. Our standard of living and life expectancy is declining. People feel it in their bones.</p> <p>Science and technology, also, I think have shown themselves as not entirely trust worthy. Think coal and oil. Think of all the two-headed frogs and dead birds from pesticides and meds (including birth control pills) leaking into the water ways and soil. Think of the logistical nightmares when Ebola broke out (my fam is from a poor tropical country- pretty darn hard to keep roads nice in the jungle, not to mention put them in, and it involves severe environmental degradation to do it, for example). I don't know that Millenials, with their global awareness, find the same hope in science and technology. I don't know they feel they can afford it.</p> <p>I think these things may contribute to the retreat to a basic life. When you feel your mortality, procreation becomes more imperative. The effort and right to have some kids are like your last stand, what you put the fort around.</p> <p>Also, industrialization broke up home life for everyone, and I don't know how well it has sat with anyone over the last several hundred years. Think of the dead bedroom community syndrome, where houses are empty for most of the day. I think the nervous housewife syndrome became a thing then, with the advent of the suburbs, that people started tracing back to Victorian times. Another moment of Motherhood on a Pedestal.</p> <p>The whole thing is a mess, frankly... </p> https://youlookfab.com/welookfab/topic/for-the-non-mothers-long-but-heartfelt#post-1697655 Tue, 19 Jul 2016 19:08:24 +0000 rabbit 1697655@https://youlookfab.com/welookfab/ <p>Yeah I'm wondering Aziraphale about the overgrown threat assessment, and if this is different than the 70's and 80's. &nbsp; After leaving home for college I decided not to get network TV so have never watched local TV news at home, and I try not to click on online news videos. &nbsp;I prefer to read online print news stories because I don't need the sensory emotional triggers, just the facts. &nbsp;When I check statistics I see crime rates across the US have been declining steeply since the 90s, so... &nbsp;</p> <p>I wonder if some of the perceived regression in gender roles is economic, that wages aren't keeping up with the cost of living and child care costs make having one parent at home just more financially doable than the alternative.&nbsp;</p> <p>As an aside I also wonder how on earth this generation of college students is going to get out of their student debt. </p> https://youlookfab.com/welookfab/topic/for-the-non-mothers-long-but-heartfelt#post-1697602 Tue, 19 Jul 2016 17:51:36 +0000 Aziraphale 1697602@https://youlookfab.com/welookfab/ <p>You always have a unique perspective, Rachylou. And you're quite right; we don't like to think about dying. But we should. I think we live our lives better when we make a point of reflecting on our impending demise. :-)</p> <p>I agree that it used to be about dying in childbed, but it no longer is, in the Western world at least. Not that there is no risk -- there is still a small one -- but now that we have antibiotics and can do caesarians without accidentally killing the mother, very few actually die. I believe the infant mortality rate during childbirth is actually much higher than the maternal one. </p> <p>I'm still scratching my head as to why motherhood has become this holy vocation, but I suspect it's partly a response to the high divorce rates and minimal supervision of children in the 70s and 80s (who are now parents), and partly a feminist backlash. And also, I bet it has something to do with the fact that the world <i>seems</i> like a very dangerous place, because modern media provides relentless news of every tragedy everywhere on the planet. We hear about one kid in some remote town having a tragic accident or getting abducted, and it makes us panicky. People are bad at assessing risk.&nbsp;</p> <p>Mary, I've no doubt your honey would have been fabulous anyway, but you raise a good point about how equality easier in childless marriages. It definitely is! Once there are kids, the woman often quits or cuts back on working, and it upsets the power balance of a relationship. That doesn't mean that lots of couples automatically revert to the gender roles of the 1800s, but it can cause some friction. Couples have to find ways of re-balancing the dynamic.</p> <p>Deb, I hear you when you say that you wonder why we're still having this discussion, and why there's still such a strong societal pressure to have babies. I partially addressed that above in my response to Rachylou, but I'm only guessing. I don't know why it's still so unequal. When I was 20, I thought we were home free. I thought equality for women was in the bag, and racism wasn't far behind in terms of being "solved". Boy was I wrong. :-(</p> https://youlookfab.com/welookfab/topic/for-the-non-mothers-long-but-heartfelt#post-1697060 Mon, 18 Jul 2016 21:04:02 +0000 deb 1697060@https://youlookfab.com/welookfab/ <p>This is a very interesting conversation. I am so glad for science and the advent of the birth control pill. I am 62 and the women of my mothers age group did not have a choice to be childless unless&nbsp;they decided to never have sex. Children came with the territory of womanhood. As a teenager in the 60's, reading Gloria Steinem, and joining NOW (National Organization of Women) when&nbsp;it first started at my college in 1971, I had the extraordinary good fortune to be a part of the process of change. The NOW meetings were full of intelligent&nbsp;thoughtful women that discussed this issue and I learned so much. But now I wonder why we still have this discussion, why is there still the societal pressure to have babies. I just do not get it, and actually it makes me angry. </p> https://youlookfab.com/welookfab/topic/for-the-non-mothers-long-but-heartfelt#post-1696888 Mon, 18 Jul 2016 16:14:12 +0000 MsMary 1696888@https://youlookfab.com/welookfab/ <p>This is such an interesting thread, and I agree with so many of the wise comments.</p> <p>I was thinking of something related just this morning. Lovely Fiance and his late wife were never able to have children, and it occurs to me that maybe that's part of the reason he is such a wonderful, egalitarian partner. I feel like sometimes when women have children they get really focused on the children and household and sometimes the husbands/fathers get pushed into a less hands-on role at home. Maybe because LF never experienced that, he's the most equal partner I've ever seen -- cooking, cleaning, and just generally seeing us as a team with no expectations about gender roles, even though he's from a generation in which that was quite unusual. It's really interesting. Maybe (probably -- he's pretty great!) he would have been that way anyway, but I think it's easier in childless marriages. </p> https://youlookfab.com/welookfab/topic/for-the-non-mothers-long-but-heartfelt#post-1696645 Mon, 18 Jul 2016 04:39:53 +0000 rachylou 1696645@https://youlookfab.com/welookfab/ <p>Yes, it was this line from the quote that caught my eye: "That no action will ever be the equal of giving birth."</p> <p>I see that notion - and many do have it - as being connected with the idea of facing down death. At least somewhere in the back of the alligator mind. But it is the same tricksy alligator mind that creates tunnel vision in the face of danger that makes people forgetful that there is more than one way to die.</p> <p>Also, at the same time, I don't think we like to think about dying. So we pick on other aspects of motherhood as to why it's up there on the list... But that's the one that makes it tremendous I should think. And again, lots of other ways to die actually. </p> https://youlookfab.com/welookfab/topic/for-the-non-mothers-long-but-heartfelt#post-1696540 Mon, 18 Jul 2016 00:17:57 +0000 Aziraphale 1696540@https://youlookfab.com/welookfab/ <p>I totally see your point, Gaylene! And I'd by lying if I didn't say I knew a few parents (and moms are more guilty of this than dads, generally) who seem to have their kids at the centre of their universe, but it's not the norm, at least not where we live. We see a pretty broad spectrum of socio-economic classes among the families in our area, though. "Sacrificing oneself on the altar of motherhood" happens way more among the privileged, white, highly-educated women than the lower-income ones who are just trying to make ends meet, for sure.&nbsp;</p> <p>None of the sensible women of my age group are silly about their kids, though. Many of them have well-established, rewarding careers. It's just that we're all struggling to find a balance between work, home life and our own social lives -- and now aging parents, too. There never seems to be enough time.</p> <p>And incidentally, I wrote a paper on North American breastfeeding culture for my cultural theory class last year. I was surrounded by breastfeeding Nazis when I lived in Marin County, California, and I was seen as a freak of nature because I chose to stop breastfeeding after four months. They saw me as the kooky Canadian who had her priorities mixed up. So I can certainly confirm that the pro-breastfeeding movement has got out of hand. But I had my second baby in Vancouver BC, and I noticed much less breastfeeding fervour. Not sure if this was because of the culture here, or that the times had changed, or a bit of both. I only breastfed my second for five months, because I felt that after that point, my needs as a woman who doesn't like being sucked on outweighed any potential advantage to my baby. </p> https://youlookfab.com/welookfab/topic/for-the-non-mothers-long-but-heartfelt#post-1696434 Sun, 17 Jul 2016 20:10:32 +0000 Gaylene 1696434@https://youlookfab.com/welookfab/ <p>Actually, I wasn't really thinking of the so-called "helicoptering parent"--although, it is probably an extreme example of child-centred parenting. My thoughs were more about what you describe as the "regular" mothers who hold full-time jobs while trying to uphold today's child-centred parenting standards. The notion that a minimal parenting style is detrimental to a child's development has become so ingrained in North American culture that even suggesting it as a reasonable alternative seems preposterous. Maybe it's time to swing the pendulum back a bit--to a point where having children doesn't strangle a woman's chance to explore other directions? </p> <p>What seems common sense to much of the world (bottle feeding with formula after six months for a working mother?) is often viewed as selfishness, or even willful neglect, in here in North America. I have friends in other countries who are puzzled by the idea children aren't taught to accommodate to the needs of the adults who provide for them. To them, it's not selfish to pursue adult interests and activities. What strikes them as odd is the idea that a child's desires and interests would become the driving force behind family living.</p> <p>While I agree that being a parent resets one's perspective, I'm laughing at the notion it made me selfless. If I had thought of having children in that light, I'd have preferred to be childless. I'm arguing here for some middle ground between willful neglect and sacrificing oneself on the altar of motherhood--a parenting style that doesn't keep women from focusing on their own interests and achievements outside of the home. Maybe it's time to quit censoring a woman for choosing the bottle over the breast? </p> https://youlookfab.com/welookfab/topic/for-the-non-mothers-long-but-heartfelt#post-1696334 Sun, 17 Jul 2016 16:54:22 +0000 Aziraphale 1696334@https://youlookfab.com/welookfab/ <p>Rachy, I think I see what you mean. Death is a whole other topic (I did my second-year term project on it, actually!). There's a cool website called Order of the Good Death that I still get a kick out of. People who live their lives with their own death in mind tend to do a better job of everything. :-)</p> <p>Ah, Gaylene, the helicopter parent debate. I've had this with my own 60-something mother-in-law. Yes, you're quite right, North American parents have pushed back against the kind of parenting they received (the minimal-supervision kind!) by swinging the pendulum too far the other way. We are drowning in pop culture literature on the topic. I've been making my own observations, though, and for every ridiculous helicopter mom I know, there are at least ten "regular" ones who are just trying to balance as best they can their jobs and families (and, occasionally, one neglectful one who is still drunk from the night before when she drops her lunch-less kids off at school). I've met very few tiresome parents who gush about the "specialness" of their sweet darlings while I roll my eyes. Kids still play outside on the street. They are in more scheduled activities, that's true -- especially the kids who are involved in athletics. (I can't believe how many soccer practices the development league kids have per week. You'd think they were training for the World Cup). But for the most part, where I live, parenthood is not some kind of grand vocation that obliterates all other aspects of life -- not in the way I've read about. Maybe it's more pronounced among Ivy-league parents in prestigious neighbourhoods in the US?&nbsp;</p> <p>The other issue, of course, is who is around to mind our kids if we don't? We mostly have small families, often spread across the globe. Many have jobs with long hours. Not many women are stay-at-home moms for more than five years. Daycare is expensive, although many of us cough up for it because there isn't an alternative. I'm lucky to have in-laws to help cover child care while I'm at school -- most of my friends don't. I'm all for the idea of "it takes a village to raise a child", but we don't live in an environment where kids are surrounded by caring aunties, uncles, grandparents or even neighbours who are at home during the day. ;-)</p> <p>Xtabay -- absolutely! I couldn't agree more. Think of all the childless people who have come up with important innovations that have improved the entire world. It's hard to argue that they have lived more selfish lives than people who have merely raised a few of their own, biological offspring.&nbsp;</p> https://youlookfab.com/welookfab/topic/for-the-non-mothers-long-but-heartfelt#post-1696333 Sun, 17 Jul 2016 16:52:44 +0000 Anonymous 1696333@https://youlookfab.com/welookfab/ <p>I couldn't agree more, AZ, that parenting is a selfless enterprise.&nbsp; Probably THE most selfless, in fact.&nbsp; But in my mind, at least, that doesn't mean that NOT parenting is selfish.&nbsp; That's pretty convoluted thinking, and seems quite ingrained into the prevailing attitudes toward what's expected of women.&nbsp; </p> <p>Thanks for your thoughtful post! </p> https://youlookfab.com/welookfab/topic/for-the-non-mothers-long-but-heartfelt#post-1696331 Sun, 17 Jul 2016 16:35:37 +0000 Aziraphale 1696331@https://youlookfab.com/welookfab/ <p>Maneera, it does sound like you've endured a more than usual amount of harassment for your choice. I suspect the pressure to have children in India is greater than the pressure we face here in Canada -- although there is still an unspoken assumption that all women will do it eventually! What I <i>have</i> noticed, however, is that no one starts asking until you're in your 30s, which suggests that we now expect women to delay childrearing until after a career has been established.&nbsp;</p> <p>Thanks, Summer. :-)</p> <p>Traci, I'm very sorry to hear of your daughter's troubles. I hope she is never hounded by others. My own mother was unable to have biological children, and she told me how painful it was to endure child-related questions in the years leading up to my adoption. Hopefully people will for the most part mind their own business. I do think, as a culture, we're getting better.</p> <p>Helen, Gail -- wise and comforting words. :-)</p> <p>Xtabay -- I totally hear you when you say you're confused why people think childlessness is "selfish". Huh? On a grand scale, it's actually quite selfish. (Look! I made copies of me, to add to the crushing billions of tiny humans on the planet!). Ok I'm exaggerating, but there is definitely an element of selfishness to the biological urge to procreate. However, on a day-to-day scale, parenting <i>does</i> involve selfless behaviour -- you do invest quite a lot of your time and energy in your kids, even if you're not the dreaded "helicopter" parent. You are kind to them, you often put their needs first, and there's no question there's a lot of drudgery involved. :-)</p> https://youlookfab.com/welookfab/topic/for-the-non-mothers-long-but-heartfelt#post-1695167 Fri, 15 Jul 2016 19:47:32 +0000 rabbit 1695167@https://youlookfab.com/welookfab/ <p>Ah Gaylene, really good points, I'm nodding along. &nbsp; &nbsp;I've been kind of scratching my head at big shifts in parenting styles in the past decades, not that I don't see potential benefits in many approaches, but there seems to be more and more expected of the primary parent, with less and less time to do it in. &nbsp; I wonder also about the 'lead by example' unintended consequences for future parents, &nbsp;as well as children who don't seem to experience quite so much alone time, solo navigation through the world, and independent problem solving/self-caretaking as me and many peers did, mostly by default, heh. &nbsp;</p> </p> https://youlookfab.com/welookfab/topic/for-the-non-mothers-long-but-heartfelt#post-1695140 Fri, 15 Jul 2016 19:21:47 +0000 Gaylene 1695140@https://youlookfab.com/welookfab/ <p>OK, I hesitated in my earlier comment because I truly believe no woman has to explain or defend her decision to have, or not have, children unless she chooses to do so. And I understand why Caitlin Moran argues so passionately against the stupidly misguided notion that not having children is a "selfish" or "-less" type of womanhood. No woman should be subjected to that kind of self-serving, judgemental comment, even when it comes wrapped in the guise of loving "concern". </p> <p>But I do grit my teeth at the underlying assumption that bearing a child means embracing the "vocation" of motherhood. This particular view of child-centred motherhood is a societal construct that has really grabbed hold of North American society in the past few decades. Even a cursory reading of history makes it clear that bearing a child didn't always mean raising a child, or nurturing a child--or even acknowledging a child. Having a child might be considered a "duty" as part of a marriage contract, but, for centuries, it didn't need to be more than a brief interlude in a woman's life.</p> <p>I'm certainly not arguing we go back to the idea of fostering out our children, but I do think it's time to push back at the idea that having a child automatically means adopting a child-centred lifestyle for a woman. Being a parent (and note, I didn't say "mother") doesn't come in one-size-fits-all model. I agree with Ms.Moran in her passion for women to be supported in areas that aren't connected to child-rearing, but I also think it's just as important to give woman the choice of how they want to prioritize motherhood. The notion of motherhood as a "vocation" is, to me, where the real battle rages.</p> <p>The judgemental attitude against woman who choose to be childless isn't pleasant, but the harshness directed at woman who choose to prioritize other interests over child-rearing once they have birthed children is almost virulent. </p> https://youlookfab.com/welookfab/topic/for-the-non-mothers-long-but-heartfelt#post-1695125 Fri, 15 Jul 2016 18:57:20 +0000 rachylou 1695125@https://youlookfab.com/welookfab/ <p>ps: Yes, pets and kids are different! There comes a point with human kids that you no longer have to pick up their poop! </p> https://youlookfab.com/welookfab/topic/for-the-non-mothers-long-but-heartfelt#post-1695120 Fri, 15 Jul 2016 18:49:41 +0000 rachylou 1695120@https://youlookfab.com/welookfab/ <p>Ah, Az. I can't say that desire has anything to do with it. The draft isn't voluntary. And being a conscientious objector is not the default. In fact, it's probably the somewhat involuntary testing of one's mettle to the utmost that's key. The looking of death in the eye. Death being a great human theme. I think it's a bit interesting that people overlook that death comes to all. Like you know, even God died... Ahem!</p> <p>Traci - I know both your girls are amazing! However life comes. </p> https://youlookfab.com/welookfab/topic/for-the-non-mothers-long-but-heartfelt#post-1695082 Fri, 15 Jul 2016 17:33:40 +0000 Anonymous 1695082@https://youlookfab.com/welookfab/ <p>I'm not a mom of human children, but my maternal instincts have been met with all my animals.&nbsp; It's not the same, I know, but still, it's caring for another living creature.&nbsp; I also have done plenty of baby-sitting for my friends and neighbors.&nbsp;&nbsp; Never wanted my own kids, but it's worked out fine for this "childless mom."&nbsp; I find it odd that some people (including some who've commented on YLF) consider it selfish not to have children.&nbsp; What's up with that?&nbsp; I don't get it. Surely that's not a requirement for having a full, happy life?</p> https://youlookfab.com/welookfab/topic/for-the-non-mothers-long-but-heartfelt#post-1695067 Fri, 15 Jul 2016 16:49:43 +0000 Aziraphale 1695067@https://youlookfab.com/welookfab/ <p>Rabbit, I couldn't have said it better myself. Your mother sounds like a smart woman (and so do you! ) -- <i>she led by example</i>. And I'm not surprised to hear you say that you find having a dual income helps support your career as an artist. You know the reason there aren't as many famous female artists/writers/scientists/entrepreneurs etc? Because having children dramatically gets in the way of all the other creative endeavours, for both financial reasons as well as just the energy they require. We only have so much energy to go around. Some of us have more than others. Sure, there are historical exceptions, and there are more exceptions these days because I do think feminism is making a bit of a dent (finally) in terms of the choices we have. And most of the dads I know are very involved in the raising of their kids -- but almost without exception, the women are still the primary caregivers. Women who have children always cut down on their other creative output because there is a balancing act. Once you have kids, dropping the ball with them is far worse than cutting back on any other vocation you may have.</p> <p>Thanks, Astrid! I enjoyed the book too. I feel like I need to re-read it (and also get my hands on a copy of Tina Fey's <i>Bossypants</i>, which I hear is also good).</p> <p>rachylou, I'm not quite sure I understand what you mean. Are you saying we all have a desire to sacrifice ourselves for something? Because I'm not sure that I do ;-)</p> <p>Gaylene, you're quite right, we seem to have a need to reassure ourselves that the life path we chose is the better one. I see this all the time when people talk about big families versus small ones. Those of us with few children talk about how much we enjoy the tight-knit family group, and we shake our heads and wonder how families with five children can possibly meet all their kids' needs when they live in the constant zoo of people coming and going. I know I'm guilty of this -- or at least I think it in my head, even though I try not to say it out loud. Because I know the parents with large families are feeling sorry for us, in turn, with our quiet family gatherings, and no cousins to visit etc. There are pros and cons to both. :-)</p> <p>Style Fan, I believe -- I hope -- you are right when you say that young women now face less judgment for choosing not to become mothers. If that is true, we are making strides as a species. Not that parenthood isn't super-important, because there are actually few things in life that matter more than your children <i>once you do become a parent</i> -- but <i>becoming</i> a parent should not be expected. No one should be judged because they chose a different path. After all, it's not like we're running out of babies. :-)</p> <p>On the topic of kids, I have to go now and pick up one of mine from a sleepover, but I will return to answer the rest of your comments later! Thanks for taking the time to post. :-)</p> </p> https://youlookfab.com/welookfab/topic/for-the-non-mothers-long-but-heartfelt#post-1694889 Fri, 15 Jul 2016 13:26:57 +0000 Gail 1694889@https://youlookfab.com/welookfab/ <p>I have three children and have several really good friends who chose not to have children . IMHO its all a personal choice and no-one should be judged for it .<br />Traci, so sorry to read of your daughters struggles , praying for her.</p> https://youlookfab.com/welookfab/topic/for-the-non-mothers-long-but-heartfelt#post-1694862 Fri, 15 Jul 2016 12:49:00 +0000 Helen11 1694862@https://youlookfab.com/welookfab/ <p>Traci, I'm sorry to hear about your daughter's illness. Isn't it astounding that siblings - and daughters- can be so different. I hope that the world is more understanding of individuals choices about motherhood in the future. </p> https://youlookfab.com/welookfab/topic/for-the-non-mothers-long-but-heartfelt#post-1694804 Fri, 15 Jul 2016 11:39:01 +0000 Traci 1694804@https://youlookfab.com/welookfab/ <p>This is a topic that weighs very heavy on my heart right now. &nbsp;I'm a mom to two beautiful girls, 18 and 14. &nbsp;My 18 year old has been fighting cancer for the last year, and we just found out 10 days ago that she already has a relapse.</p> <p>She has always wanted to be a mom, from the moment she understood that she can be a mom. &nbsp;I know that no matter what happens in her life, she will mother people, whether they are born out of her body or not.</p> <p>Her sister has always been revolted by the idea of motherhood. &nbsp;Not just the biomechanics, but the idea that a person is reliant on you and their needs may be put first sometimes. &nbsp;I know things can change, but I also know watching her for this first 14 years that she has a very keen insight and when she is absolutely certain on something it doesn't change.</p> <p>So, we're this weird trifecta of motherhood. &nbsp;I was never certain I'd be a mother, but got married young, craved a baby, and became a mother, easy peasy. &nbsp;My oldest yearns for children of her own, but it's near certain they'll not be her own. &nbsp;I'm curious to watch where the path takes her. &nbsp;I hurt for her knowing that if she doesn't acquire a kid somehow, she'll hear about her childlessness constantly. &nbsp;And then my youngest doesn't want kids and is completely secure in that choice.</p> <p>Sorry for the long ramble. &nbsp;This isn't a topic I've spent much time on, until recently, other than to think it's really none of anyone's business and I feel bad that people are hounded about their choices. </p> https://youlookfab.com/welookfab/topic/for-the-non-mothers-long-but-heartfelt#post-1694776 Fri, 15 Jul 2016 09:50:05 +0000 Summer 1694776@https://youlookfab.com/welookfab/ <p>Wise words, indeed.&nbsp; </p> https://youlookfab.com/welookfab/topic/for-the-non-mothers-long-but-heartfelt#post-1694657 Fri, 15 Jul 2016 02:24:12 +0000 Maneera 1694657@https://youlookfab.com/welookfab/ <p>Really good read. An another woman who has chosen to be child-free, I really understand this. </p> <p>I've been questioned and tormented on this issue for the last 8 years. I believe things might be a little different in other countries, but here in India, child-free couples (by choice) are almost unheard of. I think the concept will pick up popularity eventually....but for now, I'm in the minority. </p> <p>And often amazed that even random stranger women I meet on dog walks feel they have the right to judge me because I choose not to have children. It's stopped bothering me now...I just chalk it up to their ignorance if they make comments like "Don't you think you're doing something wrong by not having kids? You even work from home, so where is the problem?" Well, the problem, my friend, is that I don't WANT children. Period. Job or no job....free or busy....it's what we have chosen for our life. </p> <p>I strongly believe that we women must support other women in whatever choices they make. My best friend is a great mother and our relationship continues to be the same. I adore her daughter, she adores my dogs. </p> <p>I agree 100% that you don't need to have children to feel 'complete'.....at least, not all of us do. I've not regretted my decision till date. I've been told plenty of times that I'll change my mind because I'm only 32 right now, but I'm 100% sure that I will not. </p> <p>I want to do a lot of things with my life and procreating to add to the world population is NOT one of them. And if that makes people think I'm "selfish".... Then so be it! </p> https://youlookfab.com/welookfab/topic/for-the-non-mothers-long-but-heartfelt#post-1694498 Thu, 14 Jul 2016 23:15:22 +0000 Style Fan 1694498@https://youlookfab.com/welookfab/ <p>Wonderful quote.&nbsp; We can all support each other and not question our decision.&nbsp; <br />I never wanted children.&nbsp; I was questioned a lot.&nbsp; And told I would change my mind.&nbsp; I didn't.&nbsp; And that I would regret it.&nbsp; I don't.</p> <p>I have noticed that younger women who say they don't want children don't get as much negative responses as I did.&nbsp; They still get questioned but nothing like I did. </p> https://youlookfab.com/welookfab/topic/for-the-non-mothers-long-but-heartfelt#post-1694326 Thu, 14 Jul 2016 20:05:40 +0000 Gaylene 1694326@https://youlookfab.com/welookfab/ <p>YES!</p> <p>Can I just add I think it's important, as women, to support every woman's right to chose her own path. These discussions get acrimonious because we want to explain our own choices--something that is hard to do without unintentionally offending a woman who chooses a different path. In my books, unqualified support is the best response. </p> https://youlookfab.com/welookfab/topic/for-the-non-mothers-long-but-heartfelt#post-1694324 Thu, 14 Jul 2016 20:03:34 +0000 rachylou 1694324@https://youlookfab.com/welookfab/ <p>You know, I once read this line: Men sacrifice themselves on the field of battle, women sacrifice themselves on the childbed. But you know, think about it a little more - we all get to die. So you'll get to make the great sacrifice no matter what. I mean this in all seriousness. </p> https://youlookfab.com/welookfab/topic/for-the-non-mothers-long-but-heartfelt#post-1694302 Thu, 14 Jul 2016 19:36:23 +0000 Astrid 1694302@https://youlookfab.com/welookfab/ <p>Great quote! I read the book a while ago, I might need to go back for another read. </p> https://youlookfab.com/welookfab/topic/for-the-non-mothers-long-but-heartfelt#post-1694299 Thu, 14 Jul 2016 19:32:27 +0000 rabbit 1694299@https://youlookfab.com/welookfab/ <p>Thanks for sharing, interesting food for thought for sure. &nbsp;I've thought about this over my life, since from an early age (childhood) I did not want to have children and I still don't plan to. &nbsp; &nbsp;</p> <p>There are women artists, inventors, thinkers, business leaders and politicians who have children, and those who don't. In early classes I took about women writers/history/feminism there were myriad examples of women who gave up their artistic careers after getting married and having kids so as a lowly undergrad I planned not to marry until I'd established myself in my career (heh). &nbsp; &nbsp;In actually I've found being in a two income household a huge support to my artistic career and I'm sure I'm not alone, so I'm thinking it's impossible to generalize.</p> <p>One thing I realized is that looking back, I learned/imprinted far more from how my mother lived her life <i>as herself</i>, an independent person with her own relationships and careers and politics and passions, then anything she consciously did as a mother. &nbsp;In fact I fought with her constantly as my &nbsp;mother growing up in spite of her best efforts, but admired her as a person. &nbsp;So when I read things about raising daughters and what we tell our daughters, and how we support our daughters, being a perfect parent &nbsp;etc., that is all well and good to my mind, but just as important, if not more is how you support&nbsp;<i>yourself</i>&nbsp;and live your own life (and how you are treated and supported within the family and community), <u></u>because that's what your children see and it helps to shape their sense of the possible future. &nbsp;</p> <p>Also I'd add to that list of things you can do to get motherhood's life lessons is care for other's children -- as a teacher, social worker, coach, relative or friend. &nbsp;:)</p> https://youlookfab.com/welookfab/topic/for-the-non-mothers-long-but-heartfelt#post-1694179 Thu, 14 Jul 2016 17:23:49 +0000 Aziraphale 1694179@https://youlookfab.com/welookfab/ <p>For those of you who did not become mothers, for whatever reason:</p> <p>There have been threads over the last few months about childlessness -- those of you who chose not to have children, or who would have liked to have them but biology did not cooperate. It has been on my mind, and I've been meaning to dig out <i>How To Be a Woman</i> by Caitlin Moran, because she puts forth some excellent arguments on the subject. She points out, for example, that even the word "childlessness" is a poor one, because it implies loss.&nbsp;</p> <p>I could quote the whole chapter -- it's both funny and insightful -- but I will settle for this bit, which I believe to be true with my whole heart:</p> <p> "But it's also worth remembering [having a baby] is not of vital use to you as a woman, either. Yes, you <i>could</i>&nbsp;learn thousands of interesting things about love, strength, faith, fear, human relationships, genetic loyalty, and the effect of apricots on an immature digestive system.<br /> But I don't think there's a single lesson that motherhood has to offer that couldn't be learned elsewhere. If you want to know what's in motherhood for you, as a woman, then -- in truth -- it's nothing you couldn't get from, say, reading the 100 greatest books in human history; learning a foreign language well enough to argue in it; climbing hills; loving recklessly; sitting quietly, alone in the dawn; drinking whiskey with revolutionaries; learning to do close-hand magic; swimming in a river in winter; growing foxgloves, peas, and roses; calling your mum; singing while you walk; being polite; and always, always helping strangers. No one has ever claimed for a moment that childless men have missed out on a vital aspect of their existence, and were the poorer and crippled by it. Da Vinci, Van Gogh, Newton, Faraday, Plato, Aquinas, Beethoven, Handel, Kant, Hume. Jesus. They all seem to have managed quite well.&nbsp;<br /> Every woman who chooses -- joyfully, thoughtfully, calmly, of her own free will and desire -- not to have a child does womankind a massive favour in the long term. <b></b>We need more women who are allowed to prove their worth as people, rather than being assessed merely for their potential to create new people.<b></b> After all, half those new people we go on to create are <i>also</i> women -- presumably <i>themselves</i> to be judged, in their futures, for not making new people. And so it will go on, and on...<br /> <b>While motherhood is an incredible vocation, it has no more inherent worth than a childless woman simply being who she is, to the utmost of her capabilities. To think otherwise betrays a belief that being a thinking, creative, productive, and fulfilled woman is, somehow, not enough</b>&nbsp;[my emphasis]. That no action will ever be the equal of giving birth.<br /> Let me tell you, however momentous being a mother has been for me, I've walked around the exhibitions of Coco Chanel's life work, and it looked a lot more impressive, to be honest. I think it's important to confess this."&nbsp;</p>