YouLookFab Forum » Topic: Closet editing?

YouLookFab Forum » Topic: Closet editing? https://youlookfab.com/welookfab/topic/closet-editing-2 Style Advice for Fashion Lovers en-US Sat, 25 Apr 2026 16:32:13 +0000 http://bbpress.org/?v=1.0.2 <![CDATA[Search]]> q https://youlookfab.com/welookfab/search.php Anonymous on "Closet editing?" https://youlookfab.com/welookfab/topic/closet-editing-2#post-2233662 Sat, 23 Oct 2021 11:52:54 +0000 Anonymous 2233662@https://youlookfab.com/welookfab/ Busy week- but still enjoying everyone's thoughts! Janet on "Closet editing?" https://youlookfab.com/welookfab/topic/closet-editing-2#post-2233478 Fri, 22 Oct 2021 13:02:09 +0000 Janet 2233478@https://youlookfab.com/welookfab/ I can have a hard time knowing when I am well and truly over something as opposed to not feeling it at that moment. I’m a moody dresser! It’s much easier to edit out things that don’t fit, don’t flatter, are worn out, uncomfortable, etc. But if I just have a mood swing, I generally leave it in the closet or move it to the holding zone for a while. Sometimes it seems the mood shift is permanent, but other times after months or even years, I’ll come back around to it. However, I have noticed that my holding zone keepers of bags and boots are more likely to be revived than clothing items. Bijou on "Closet editing?" https://youlookfab.com/welookfab/topic/closet-editing-2#post-2233465 Fri, 22 Oct 2021 12:25:03 +0000 Bijou 2233465@https://youlookfab.com/welookfab/ @Gaylene - thankyou for your insightful comments. I remember you posting about down sizing and thought how difficult that must have been. I am thrilled to hear that it was a successful exercise. I hang onto items that have fallen out of favour that are good quality, suit my lifestyle or if I really love them. I maintain a holding zone, but need to just send the items that I have there off to charity as once I make the decision to part with something, I usually have a good reason and don't tend to look back. DonnaF on "Closet editing?" https://youlookfab.com/welookfab/topic/closet-editing-2#post-2233421 Fri, 22 Oct 2021 04:50:45 +0000 DonnaF 2233421@https://youlookfab.com/welookfab/ I have a history of wearing some things every other year or wearing something hardly at all the first year I own it and then a lot the next year. Also, after I take items on vacation, it’s months and months before I want to wear them again even if they were favorites. Because of the foregoing, I am very slow to edit. A few weeks ago, I was regretting passing on a couple pairs of jeans that I haven’t been able to get into for years. Then I found them in a drawer because DD had pulled them aside. I can now wear them! OTOH, I am holding onto the handful of items that are now too big. My weight is generally pretty stable but 8-10 pounds more than it is now. I never would have guessed that I would lose so much weight simply by exercising more. I figure that I am likely to stabilize a few pounds up such that they will fit again. Sloper on "Closet editing?" https://youlookfab.com/welookfab/topic/closet-editing-2#post-2233395 Fri, 22 Oct 2021 01:41:27 +0000 Sloper 2233395@https://youlookfab.com/welookfab/ Amen, Gaylene! Tanya on "Closet editing?" https://youlookfab.com/welookfab/topic/closet-editing-2#post-2233379 Thu, 21 Oct 2021 23:55:46 +0000 Tanya 2233379@https://youlookfab.com/welookfab/ Like several posters have mentioned, some categories are easy for me to edit: items that are worn out, or that I don't like anymore (or never did enough to begin with).   Fit is more tricky - if it is an issue of a, say, too low of a rise, out it goes, as that is not going to change and I will never want to wear a low-ish rise.  If it is the matter of slightly too big or too small fit, but I like the item, these days I keep it, as the last couple of years my sizes fluctuates  a lot, back and forth, between the lower end of one size and higher end of the next size up, almost two full sizes. Mood is indeed the hardest one from me as well.   Typically, if I like the items, but don't feel like wearing them at a certain time point, I keep them in the holding zone.  However, I have recently hit the limit on my storage space so I may need to be more strict going forward. Gaylene on "Closet editing?" https://youlookfab.com/welookfab/topic/closet-editing-2#post-2233345 Thu, 21 Oct 2021 18:22:22 +0000 Gaylene 2233345@https://youlookfab.com/welookfab/ Two big turning points for me were (1) a serious downsizing that was necessitated by our decision to move from a large house with tons of storage to a small condo in Victoria, BC. and (2) celebrating my 70th birthday a few years ago. <div> </div><div>Fuelled by the thought of the costs of transporting stuff across a mountain range just to dispose of it at another location, I picked everything I really liked, tossed it on the bed, and uncovered a distinctive personal style that had been hidden away in a crowded closet. Going forward, I found the clarity induced by that ruthless cull made me much less susceptible to being influenced by trends and others’ opinions. Getting rid of the “flab” made it easier to see the bones of my working wardrobe. My fond thoughts of former wardrobe “glories” now reside in my memory instead of taking up space in my small closet. </div><div> </div><div>Turning 70 also made me realize my closet has to serve me NOW.  I have no regrets about passing on anything which no longer pleases me; at my age I sincerely doubt I’ll want to wear an item I’ve stuck in storage after several years have past. My future fashion choices need to harmonize with my future body and lifestyle.  Actually, I think that’s been the case throughout my life but it took me seven decades to realize it!</div> Angie on "Closet editing?" https://youlookfab.com/welookfab/topic/closet-editing-2#post-2233336 Thu, 21 Oct 2021 17:41:47 +0000 Angie 2233336@https://youlookfab.com/welookfab/ Suntiger, it's hard to know how to edit for current and future mood shifts! A bit of luck is involved.  Brooklyn and Sal describe what is closest to my own editing strategies (although I don't have a holding zone due to lack of space in our city loft). In the case of the burgundy capsule, it was very clear to me that I liked the items and the colour! I just didn't want to wear the vibe for a couple of years because I was more into my other colours. It did not make me unhappy to look at the burgundy in my closet - but the colour didn't make me happy once on my body. But two years later - I fell back in love with burgundy, and have since embellished the capsule! Animal print is another good example. I used to wear it a lot when I wore black. Then I went off it. Passed on the items slowly. Kept trying to wear what I held onto, but wasn't happy when I did. It made me unhappy to  look at animal print in my closet. So I passed on the lot 6 years ago and haven't looked back. Zero regrets, and no more animal print......unless they are pics of doggies and horses - and I happily enjoy animal print on others! :) Star (Lise) on "Closet editing?" https://youlookfab.com/welookfab/topic/closet-editing-2#post-2233300 Thu, 21 Oct 2021 13:32:46 +0000 Star (Lise) 2233300@https://youlookfab.com/welookfab/ I take my time before I edit a piece out and this works for me.  An example being I have always had a small percentage of boho in my style and then the last 10 years I was totally off of it.  I was really ready to boot the maxi skirts, I was in the 'what was I thinking that I ever wore these!' phase.  Anyway I hung onto them thinking I will give them one more summer and so it dragged.  Hello Summer 2021 my new growing in silver hair required a hat (the strawberry color one) and suddenly all my maxi skirts seemed absolutely right and I felt like me and received numerous compliments.  Big lesson for me 'style choices change and can return'.  I am really happy I kept them as they are unique skirts I brought with me from South Africa and not ones I could really replace.  So unless an item is damaged or I really hate it I hang onto it and keep it in an out of season closet or shelf. lyn67 on "Closet editing?" https://youlookfab.com/welookfab/topic/closet-editing-2#post-2233299 Thu, 21 Oct 2021 13:21:21 +0000 lyn67 2233299@https://youlookfab.com/welookfab/ OMG, Brooklyn said exactly what I would have said about myself- ref. 1&2 (silhouette and...(more exciting) the contratst!!!). Wow---how very special is to have my own feelings confirmed by somebody on the other side of the Earth!:-) Thing is, I still work in that same office and am amazed how I now don't feel the bl&w outfits anymore (which I wore for years no problem). And here is the trick, was it the "no problem" a compromise only-  and not really joy- at that time? And why a blonde feels like this right now, when the earthy tones (including their pale neutrals which I love at the moment best) is finally available again...food for thoughts! Oh-and often think the same about editing if something trusted and loved-how hard would be to buy again that item... Sally on "Closet editing?" https://youlookfab.com/welookfab/topic/closet-editing-2#post-2233282 Thu, 21 Oct 2021 10:03:15 +0000 Sally 2233282@https://youlookfab.com/welookfab/ Like Jenni I am trying not to buy as much just picking a few things each season.  I have been quite ruthless in the past because I moved around and changed sizes.  Like Brooklyn I do edit due to mood changes so I found her policy a good one and might try to do that in the future. I guess if I can't ever see myself wearing it again, I will pass it on.     I dont feel as bad about editing out what was originally thrifted for some reason.  Jenni NZ on "Closet editing?" https://youlookfab.com/welookfab/topic/closet-editing-2#post-2233276 Thu, 21 Oct 2021 06:57:24 +0000 Jenni NZ 2233276@https://youlookfab.com/welookfab/ You may remember that I started with YLF in 2017 with what seemed to me a very large wardrobe. I now think, having seen some other Fabbers’ wardrobes and holding zones, that it wasn’t as large as I thought, but I felt like I was “drowning in clothes”. It was about 200 pieces including shoes. Plus there was a sentimental stash, Dad’s old vests etc etc not counted! It was hard to let go some things that I liked even if not hugely comfortable, especially shoes. I still had a soft spot for them. But I eventually donated many a pair while still buying some, now down to 36 pair from 50 pair, it feels way better. No regrets there because they were less worn due to comfort. In 2018 I donated 42 items, that was the biggest editing year. In 2019 and 2020 24 items each year. So far no regrets. Many worn out, if less worn there was a good reason for that. Have been trying not to donate if worn under 30 wears since that bigger year. The work is done at the buying end for me. Any doubts at all- do not buy! slim cat on "Closet editing?" https://youlookfab.com/welookfab/topic/closet-editing-2#post-2233270 Thu, 21 Oct 2021 03:44:27 +0000 slim cat 2233270@https://youlookfab.com/welookfab/ I have very limited space and live in mild climate - so my season switches are not that complicated ( I do use luggage for the two biggest puffers and some heavy winter accessories and couple bins for some other things  ). I try not over adit my wardrobe since I already did have some regrets - like flared black velvet pants from BR that were tight but could have been doable now. I like @Brooklyn' way of editing and going to borrow it for the future  . Brooklyn on "Closet editing?" https://youlookfab.com/welookfab/topic/closet-editing-2#post-2233267 Thu, 21 Oct 2021 03:05:22 +0000 Brooklyn 2233267@https://youlookfab.com/welookfab/ I think editing for mood changes is the trickiest. I’ve had 2 big mood shifts in the last few years. (1) Silhouette. I am off skirts or dresses that end at the knees. Although I wouldn’t classify them as short, they just feel too short for me right now. I was very into knee length pencil skirts and knee length A-line skirts for a while (admittedly I was working in an office at the time), now I’m not. (2) Contrast. I am off high contrast looks. I was very into black and white for a while, now I’m not. I have thinned out these items a little. And re-dyed some of the black and white items. The rest are in a holding zone in case of change of mood (or return to the office). The main question I ask myself is “how hard would this item be to find again if my mood shifted back?”. So, for instance, I have happily donated some plain black pencil skirts, but I’ve hung onto some dark floral pencil skirts that would be harder to replace. Similarly, a black and white striped top is easy to replace, a black and white floral skirt, harder. These are some items that are in my holding zone. I still think they are great. I just don’t feel like wearing them! Sloper on "Closet editing?" https://youlookfab.com/welookfab/topic/closet-editing-2#post-2233265 Thu, 21 Oct 2021 02:22:03 +0000 Sloper 2233265@https://youlookfab.com/welookfab/ SF - where I live, the change of seasons is not so extreme, and even without COVID, my lifestyle is rather constrained, so I don’t really need a seasonal wardrobe review or change-out. My bottoms are usually wearable year round, tops are maybe a switch from short sleeve tee to long sleeve tee, maybe throw on a sweatshirt. <div>Unfortunately, some things are just not accessible to me now (long story!) so I can’t go through them.  Wish I could - some could be worn or resold.  The accessible stuff does get sorted through periodically as energy and inclination permit.  Also I have a master list of stuff to refresh my memory. </div> Jaime on "Closet editing?" https://youlookfab.com/welookfab/topic/closet-editing-2#post-2233263 Thu, 21 Oct 2021 01:43:13 +0000 Jaime 2233263@https://youlookfab.com/welookfab/ I am more or less with Sal. It is easiest for me to get rid of annoying, "broken", or no joy items. I like to keep a range of fits for bottoms, because that is where I fluctuate most, but try to only keep what I could wear tomorrow in my active closet. I tend to keep pieces that I really liked at some point but am just not that into right now, because I am very moody and it is fun to rediscover these pieces after some time. But I have a relatively lot of storage space.  Barbara Diane on "Closet editing?" https://youlookfab.com/welookfab/topic/closet-editing-2#post-2233249 Thu, 21 Oct 2021 00:04:23 +0000 Barbara Diane 2233249@https://youlookfab.com/welookfab/ I agree with much of the above. Summer 2019 I wore skirts a lot. 2020 I was off them but kept them. 2021 I wore them. I keep things I like but I’m not “in the mood for.” Some of my clothes and accessories are quite old. OTOH if I don’t like something anymore or it gets worn or damaged, out it goes. Stagiaire Fash on "Closet editing?" https://youlookfab.com/welookfab/topic/closet-editing-2#post-2233247 Wed, 20 Oct 2021 23:52:46 +0000 Stagiaire Fash 2233247@https://youlookfab.com/welookfab/ Knowing the difference between a mood swing and a permanent shift is toughest for sure. For myself, I assume it’s all mood swing, hahaha. But given the last couple years, I think most people have gone through changes that might turn out to be less permanent than they seem. Stacking hangers are a thing. So is putting 2 pairs of pants on a hanger together. Sloper, you don’t visit your stuff at change of seasons? How do you know you’re still not in the mood? Sloper on "Closet editing?" https://youlookfab.com/welookfab/topic/closet-editing-2#post-2233246 Wed, 20 Oct 2021 23:51:54 +0000 Sloper 2233246@https://youlookfab.com/welookfab/ I'll also echo Katerina on several points she made, and will add some personal twists. For me, things that are worn out are usually worn out because I've not only found them useful, but am probably not interested in replacing (i.e. not interested in that color or silhouette anymore - I've truly worn it to death physically and mentally). Things I don't want to wear anymore - yes I bought them for a reason, but things change.  Body, lifestyle, my outlook/mental state, what I expect for the future.   Over time, I've realized that I'll very, very rarely go back to an item that's in a storage bin or an extra closet.  Even though I have lists of what I own, if it's out of sight, it's out of mind.  And, because of health issues, I don't have the energy or inclination to go digging through things. My storage space is finite and limits how much I can hold on to. I'm trying to be more disciplined about buying new things as well as holding on to old things.  If I start rationalizing holding on to something, maybe that's another signal to me that it's time to pass it on. Anonymous on "Closet editing?" https://youlookfab.com/welookfab/topic/closet-editing-2#post-2233245 Wed, 20 Oct 2021 23:35:55 +0000 Anonymous 2233245@https://youlookfab.com/welookfab/ I share your issues and sentiments , suntiger . I’m an over-editor and often regret giving away things I want to wear again . The only area I can trust myself is with colour . But I too don’t have extra room to store stuff and become overwhelmed very easily by even the idea of a lot of clothes . I don’t know what the answer is. It’s a fine line to tread when you are interested in fashion and staying well- dressed and current …..but don’t want constant churn . Sal on "Closet editing?" https://youlookfab.com/welookfab/topic/closet-editing-2#post-2233244 Wed, 20 Oct 2021 23:35:40 +0000 Sal 2233244@https://youlookfab.com/welookfab/ It is tricky - and I don't always get it right. Definitely going - too worn or stained - pieces that annoy me when I wear them (tops that ride up being one) - pieces that don't give me joy ( this year a second hand black skirt ) Holding Zone - slightly too small or too big - pieces I am tired of (sometimes I just need a break) but that I like.   - orphans Hardest one - things that no longer fit my style direction.  I have edited out a few things that are a style I used to like, but have moved on from (slightly retro pieces). I go through my wardrobe 4 x a year including the holding zone.  I moved in spring pieces about a month ago.  I moved out winter pieces but still have two pairs of boots available, winter dressing gown etc..  In a month I will move in my high summer beach coverups and a couple iof things I really only wear December- February.   I think there are a variety of strategies that work depending on your storage space, your ability to manage a large wardrobe (and desire to do so), your style (how often does it change) and weight fluctuations.  My wardrobe count has stayed the same for a few years (within about 8 items) but this year my gear capsule grew.  This was planned due to a number of gaps I discovered last year. In your case, I think you have experienced a style shift this year to a more classic look, and have been drawn to simpler pieces.  If your more elaborate patterned pieces are the ones you are not sure about, I would curate them.  eg I will keep the two tops I love the most/suit me the most and the two jackets etc..  I keep jewelry and scarves for longer as they are easy to store. Anonymous on "Closet editing?" https://youlookfab.com/welookfab/topic/closet-editing-2#post-2233243 Wed, 20 Oct 2021 23:15:42 +0000 Anonymous 2233243@https://youlookfab.com/welookfab/ Enjoying everyones thoughts! Fit is an issue where I've regretted passing things on when I've regained or relost the weight, so I don't anymore. Condition is a definite, though it's hard to pass on the just right pieces, when the possible replacements aren't as nice. Style is the trickiest. It's hard to know if I'm off it for good or temporarily. I feel like I'm going through permanent life changes, but it's not linear. cat2 on "Closet editing?" https://youlookfab.com/welookfab/topic/closet-editing-2#post-2233238 Wed, 20 Oct 2021 21:40:26 +0000 cat2 2233238@https://youlookfab.com/welookfab/ I echo what Katerina said, but I have many more shoes than bags, and I collect jewelry rather than scarves. I currently have enough closet storage room, but before moving to our current house stored my out of season and out of favor things in tubs under our bed. Katerina on "Closet editing?" https://youlookfab.com/welookfab/topic/closet-editing-2#post-2233235 Wed, 20 Oct 2021 21:15:19 +0000 Katerina 2233235@https://youlookfab.com/welookfab/ That is a very good question, Suntiger! I purge items which are too worn out. Next come items that do not feel comfortable. It could be shopping mistakes - wrong fit, or a material that is scratching or not breathable. Usually things I somehow did not love from the beginning - do not ask why I got them in the first place, lol. I am normally not passing on items that fit or can fit again (my weight fluctuates between two sizes often), that are in good condition and that are of good quality. I am not very “moody” and I am quite loyal to my trusted clothing Not a trendy dresser either. I take a break from some items sometimes, put them into holding zone, and often reach for them after some time again. It could take several years sometimes. As an example - I was almost completely off trench coats for a couple of years. I have a few. This autumn, I got the taste for them again. I have a large wardrobe, so the challenge is storage. It takes work and energy to keep things in order and to have control, but I decided that the pleasure of having choices and variety is worth it. I love shopping my closet :-) The largest portion of my wardrobe consists of accessories, including bags. I never purge accessories, unless broken or worn out. I give some scarves or jewelry to my sister or to my friends, if they love something. But otherwise, I keep things many years and like having them. The smallest portion of my wardrobe are probably knitwear and shoes. Stagiaire Fash on "Closet editing?" https://youlookfab.com/welookfab/topic/closet-editing-2#post-2233234 Wed, 20 Oct 2021 21:06:05 +0000 Stagiaire Fash 2233234@https://youlookfab.com/welookfab/ That was a big question for me when we moved 3 years ago. There are a few categories I tossed that I’m regretful about—2 pr of high waisted mom jeans, a bunch of blazers & jackets. I’ve never worn them a lot, but they were occasionally useful. When I got here I saw that a lot of women do wear them. This summer I also thought a few times about little tops with spaghetti straps that I lived in in the Florida heat. They would’ve been nice a couple times. But for the most part I have no regrets about what I tossed and what I hung onto. Weeding through my closet, I realized I had way more torn, stained, or otherwise damaged things than I had thought. They all went out. On fit, there’s no way I’d want to chase down new items every time I put on or take off an inch! But there are some things that can fit me just right, according to guidelines, but somehow never feel right. Maybe the collar curls or the skirt is stiff. I can’t quite explain it, but in some things I feel like I need to move unnaturally (even though I actually don’t & the fit is fine). They go out. Sometimes I don’t realize there is a real fit issue until I’ve worn the thing a couple times. This sweater got cheers on the forum, but wouldn’t stay up on my shoulders. I consigned it. Right now I store my off-season wardrobe in my luggage. It’s a pain during transitional seasons and when we travel, but otherwise that seems ok, until I get more closet space. Keeping things a long time begins when I buy them. My mom discovered when I was little that I refused to wear low natural fiber content. I also remember her telling me I should “suffer for your beauty” in exasperation. Nope! So the comments people on ylf make about learning not to settle or learning to be picky surprised me at first. I’ve really always been very insistent that things have to be comfortable for me to wear them. That probably leads to them having longevity in my closet. I rarely buy things that are super-trendy, partially because less extreme versions have more staying power, but mostly because I’d feel kooky in the most pronounced version of whatever the current trend is. Your festival wear sounds like fun, but I doubt I’d really wear it, so I don’t get that kind of thing. I have my Gap baby boot cuts from the early 90s that I’m wearing now. I’ve also bought 2 pairs of flare pants that are a bit more extreme. It has crossed my mind that if fashion goes in 20 year cycles, I’ll be a septuagenerian the next time flares come around so hmmm. Besides comfort, I’m pretty persnickety about things “looking like me”. Sometimes I get tripped up by trying to be someone else, but generally I yam what I yam, and my clothes show it. This is going to be a fun thread to watch. Thanks for starting it. Eta I agree with Ginger on taking a long time to decide to get rid of something. At the end of a season, I note what I haven’t worn, and pay attention the next time round to why not. If I’m just sick of it, but still like it (the way I don’t always feel like talking to my kid), I hang onto it. Sometimes I just need to figure out other things to wear it with, or maybe I haven’t been doing the activities where I usually wore it. During Covid, I figure normal life is suspended, so it doesn’t make any sense to remove things we’d normally wear. One day it will be normal again, and we’ll be glad to have those things to wear. Ginger on "Closet editing?" https://youlookfab.com/welookfab/topic/closet-editing-2#post-2233229 Wed, 20 Oct 2021 20:38:19 +0000 Ginger 2233229@https://youlookfab.com/welookfab/ Things I pass on easily are those I can't imagine wearing again: color isn't good, objectively uncomfortable, have design flaws or features I came to dislike, past my visible wear threshold, etc. The next step is those that don't fit anymore; I ask, "Can I imagine wearing this if I fit it in the future?" I've passed on old jeans for this reason. Past that, it's hard. I have a large holding zone and I'm perfectly fine with that. Sometimes it needs 2-4 years to decide to pass things on. And even then, I still make mistakes. I'm a very emotional dresser and can go "off" an item for years... and then suddenly remember why I used to wear it so much. I've had a few panicked searches through the holding zone, praying a certain item is still there! So I do not donate frequently. MsMaven on "Closet editing?" https://youlookfab.com/welookfab/topic/closet-editing-2#post-2233227 Wed, 20 Oct 2021 20:01:33 +0000 MsMaven 2233227@https://youlookfab.com/welookfab/ I used to be really good at pruning my wardrobe, but the last few years I'm taking more time and keeping more stuff. With the pandemic I've bought a lot of inexpensive clothes for experiments, and also, to alleviate some boredom.  I also have some more expensive items from the life I used to lead. That life is unlikely to come back, with age my body is changing, so they don't fit quite right now. And never will again.  So right now my criteria is changing. Some things are unlikely to ever fit again. Even if they did, I doubt I would wear them.  I'm so involved with this same issue right now, suntiger, and I'll keep watching this thread.  rachylou on "Closet editing?" https://youlookfab.com/welookfab/topic/closet-editing-2#post-2233222 Wed, 20 Oct 2021 19:41:26 +0000 rachylou 2233222@https://youlookfab.com/welookfab/ I don’t know, with the exception of banana yellow, so frankly I hoard. But I’ve also come to keeping I guess what are very small complements of colour. Maybe enough to make one complete monochromatic outfit should I feel like doing that. Anonymous on "Closet editing?" https://youlookfab.com/welookfab/topic/closet-editing-2#post-2233219 Wed, 20 Oct 2021 19:25:06 +0000 Anonymous 2233219@https://youlookfab.com/welookfab/ Angie's writing about burgundy, and my own feelings about being off most non neutral colors got me wondering- how do you know you're really "off" something enough to pass it on? What are your criteria for keeping vs donating, when you haven't worn something for a while? I used to pass things on without regrets, but lately have thought in some cases, that I should have kept things. I don't want to rebuy when my mood inevitably changes again- but I also don't have extra space and hate clutter. Thoughts?