YouLookFab Forum » Topic: bodies and morality

YouLookFab Forum » Topic: bodies and morality https://youlookfab.com/welookfab/topic/bodies-and-morality Style Advice for Fashion Lovers en-US Thu, 09 Apr 2026 04:58:22 +0000 http://bbpress.org/?v=1.0.2 <![CDATA[Search]]> q https://youlookfab.com/welookfab/search.php Carla on "bodies and morality" https://youlookfab.com/welookfab/topic/bodies-and-morality/page/2#post-1196938 Mon, 17 Mar 2014 02:40:38 +0000 Carla 1196938@https://youlookfab.com/welookfab/ It is like the 'Push-me, Pull-you' from Dr. Doolittle. And, doesn't this topic come up fairly regularly' too? Do I wear my bikini (at 50+ with my soft and low bust line, tummy, and stretch marks) because it is comfortable, and no one 'really' sees me because they are all worried about their own less-then-perfect bodies? Do I wear a pencil, and snug topper with specs and pointy toes for a 'sexy intellectual' vibe? Do I wear jeans, sneakers, stripped T, and trench to run errands on the weekend. Do I ramp up the colourful gear and wear the 'status' race t-shirts from the year before at sporting events? Yes x 4 and more. Sometimes I don't care (and get on with it) and sometimes I do care, and fuss a little (and post a WIW and seek opinions/validation.). You can't be ignorant of the message that your image (sex, shape, colour, etc) sends out to the world, but you shouldn't let it steal your happiness. You can manipulate that image (and isn't that part of the fun of fashion?). Probably most people won 't even notice, but some will. You may care what they think ('you look nice tonight, honey!') or you might not. So, although I would agree with those who say 'get on with it', I would also say that it is worthwhile to participate in the discussion, and learn from others. Maybe those with a confident attitude will share some of that confidence with less secure sisters, and maybe those with with less happy image experiences will facilitate understanding and tolerance with the sharing of their stories. ironkurtin on "bodies and morality" https://youlookfab.com/welookfab/topic/bodies-and-morality/page/2#post-1196911 Mon, 17 Mar 2014 01:41:55 +0000 ironkurtin 1196911@https://youlookfab.com/welookfab/ AG, you are so right - people make these judgements all the time.  I know we've all been judged one way or another, and it's been wrong. That's why I am LOUD when people attempt to put me in some sex corner.  Grope me?  Try to hit on me?  Assume I can't do something because I have ovaries?  I YELL, and YOU WILL RUN. I've also been called all sorts of variations on Bitch.  Fine by me.  I know who I won't be dating.  Or promoting.  Or hiring again. I guess I'm on team Men Are Sometimes Stupid So We Need To Show Them The Error of Their Ways By Living Strong. : ) catgirl on "bodies and morality" https://youlookfab.com/welookfab/topic/bodies-and-morality/page/2#post-1196801 Sun, 16 Mar 2014 22:58:04 +0000 catgirl 1196801@https://youlookfab.com/welookfab/ Echo, your post really resonates.  See my recent post about the undie-baring skirt length.  It did not cross my mind to judge this girl as promiscuous or attention-seeking, but I did wonder if she was clueless or wearing it intentionally.  And in another context (different neighborhood, street corner, evening),  I might have thought she was a working girl.  Context matters, and we are all programmed to interpret it, right?  And it isn't just applied to women's bodies and clothing - assumptions about race, ethnicity, weight, age, hair, tattoos, piercings, even glasses (smart?  "sexy librarian"?) are made all the time.  We need to add this topic to the YLF cruise agenda! Echo on "bodies and morality" https://youlookfab.com/welookfab/topic/bodies-and-morality/page/2#post-1196792 Sun, 16 Mar 2014 22:46:09 +0000 Echo 1196792@https://youlookfab.com/welookfab/ I think people really do make moral judgements about body types and sizes. Overweight is one of the last categories where it appears there are no rules and no protections; people seem to feel free to judge a person as lazy or lacking character/strength, or even as a lower socio-economic class. These sorts of judgements are, of course, inaccurate and harmful, yet it seems to be the last category where few others will "call someone out" about it. Overweight aside, a woman's body is most often judged for how much of it can be seen. So if society can SEE you have large breasts, and you aren't wearing at tent to try to disguise them, then you must like the attention. If a woman wears a short skirt or cleavage baring tops, then she must want sexual attention. Honestly, despite me knowing how wrong those judgements are, I still sometimes catch myself making them. Most women teach their daughters not to walk alone at night and especially not to wear club attire out alone at night. Although that is probably wise, we are still giving in to the idea that it is a woman's own fault if she is assaulted. Women who appear to have promiscuous behaviour routinely get less sympathy in an assault. Why? Because people assume that if she wanted it from 100 other men, how could she NOT have wanted it from one more. Absurd, discriminatory and criminal, but it happens all the time.  So on the one hand and in general, I do agree that we often think too much about ourselves and we ought to be Team Get On With It. But on the other, there are very real moral, political and criminal issues associated with the judgements when they do occur. To blithely tell people to get over themselves is to deny the injustice done to so many because of their gender or body type. I am lucky in that my body isn't that outside the "norm" as to cause much ruckus, but that doesn't mean that I can deny the very real experiences of other people (women especially), both in this country and around the world. adorkable on "bodies and morality" https://youlookfab.com/welookfab/topic/bodies-and-morality/page/2#post-1196725 Sun, 16 Mar 2014 21:38:57 +0000 adorkable 1196725@https://youlookfab.com/welookfab/ Thanks to mrseccentric, rabbit, and MsMaven for picking up my slack. It's been a rough week, so I won't say much, but I've loved reading your (and everyone's) comments and replies! Ironkurtin: somehow I missed your response for a week and some. I completely agree with you on a personal level - sexuality isn't immoral - but I keep using the word "morality" precisely because the folks making the judgment see it that way. I think rabbit explained my point of view better than I can, actually. Thanks to everyone for your honesty and your thoughts. MsMaven on "bodies and morality" https://youlookfab.com/welookfab/topic/bodies-and-morality/page/2#post-1196491 Sun, 16 Mar 2014 17:23:41 +0000 MsMaven 1196491@https://youlookfab.com/welookfab/ Great discussion that brings out some uncomfortable emotions as I look back.  I had friends who fell into the "large breasts=slut" category, and unfortunately one of them decided she must be a slut and acted out on that.  Later she dealt with the whole issue by gaining a huge amount of weight and that had a negative effect on her health.   Unfortunately, the religious culture that I grew up in still preaches that girls and women are responsible for men's thoughts and desires, and it is our job not to arouse sexual thoughts in any man, anywhere.  Such a stance continues to make looks and dress a "moral issue" for both men and women, and leads to body shame and weird sexual repressions.  I was a young adult in the late 60s and 70s through the so-called sexual revolution and the women's movement.  It is sad that these same issues are still with us.  While biology does play a part, I also think that culture and socializing of both men and women plays a big part in why so many are still judging and feeling judged by the same stereotypes. rabbit on "bodies and morality" https://youlookfab.com/welookfab/topic/bodies-and-morality/page/2#post-1195771 Sat, 15 Mar 2014 19:15:35 +0000 rabbit 1195771@https://youlookfab.com/welookfab/ <div>Yum latte.... I read through this thread earlier, and didn't comment at that time, partly, because, like MaryK says, it's a hot button issue.  I appreciate all the different perspectives and sharing of painful personal experience. </div><div> </div><div>Like Mrs E, 'moral judgement' felt like the right choice of word for me as it shows up in popular political discourse in the United States, at least.   Although it doesn't match my definition of the word, which is probably close to IK's,  the Moral Majority and 'moral/family values' politicians are specifically addressing gender, sexuality, women's bodies, and sexual orientation -- and assigning values to those.  For many people these are values they share, for many others they are not.</div><div> </div><div>If you accept the existence of rape culture (and that is a big caveat), then how to respond?  I think there are several coping strategies and 'get on with it/ignore it' is one of them, which can be useful and individually empowering, if someone chooses it as their approach - I've definitely used it at times with regard to other gender related issues I've run into.  Sometimes the only way out is through, put your head down and keep going.  The thing is, to my mind is it a solution? Or just a coping strategy?   Also slut-shaming and victim blaming can be subtle and can be very unintentional, and doesn't just come from men.  Where is the point where teaching a girl or teenager to dress modestly is about protection/safety and preservation of childhood and where is it about shame?   Granted 90% of it is no doubt cultural norms, religious beliefs, and aesthetic preferences -- but these all come from somewhere and have a history, they don't exist in a vacuum. </div> mrseccentric on "bodies and morality" https://youlookfab.com/welookfab/topic/bodies-and-morality/page/2#post-1195724 Sat, 15 Mar 2014 18:29:24 +0000 mrseccentric 1195724@https://youlookfab.com/welookfab/ Hi, just checking in after high/low week and wanted to thank people for thoughtful comments. Rachylou: "Things turn into moral judgement when people insist (erroneously) the object of their feelings causes their feelings..." oh boy. i did not cause you to become consumed by lust merely by wearing appropriate clothing in 97F heat. ergo (to be blunt) i owe you nothing, and even less than nothing after you decide to start throwing a fit about it. MaryK, you put this very well: "...we need to be careful that Team Get On With It doesn't morph into Team Suck It Up Because It's Your Own Fault Anyway."  And i'm all for 'tips and tricks that helped me to Get On With It' and moral support! Claudia, thank you and thank you for sharing. "People aren't thinking about you the way you think they are!" is true much of the time; but if it was true all of the time we wouldn't have been stalked by grown men when we were little girls or teens. Scary is a right word, bone-chilling a bit better. Hi Dana! yeah, it takes thought and finesse to get the words right. For me, Rachylou hit the right note with the phrase 'moral judgement'. I have found that many people do make moral judgements about others based on the others' body. It's not rampant but not uncommon in my experience. And it is wrong and thoughtless and many times a justification for the 'judge-ers' own bad behaviour. And it does have just about zippity doo dah to do with actual morality or ethics. "There are many things I reject about this idea, but the biggest one for this discussion is that sex is by definition immoral, so anyone found sexy is therefore immoral. That is my pushback on the term morality here. It's based on a (to me) erroneous definition of the term." I agree. At the same time i think this does reflect many people's (okay, big judgement follows so prepare yourself) idiot so-called 'ideas'.  Which only have a chance of change when people push back so props to you! re: entitlement. Word. And big thanks to you adorkable for having the courage to start a thread on a  fraught but important topic, and for providing thoughtful responses.  Have a great weekend everybody!!  steph p.s. i added a latte for y'alls Saturday morning brunch ironkurtin on "bodies and morality" https://youlookfab.com/welookfab/topic/bodies-and-morality/page/2#post-1185196 Wed, 05 Mar 2014 15:45:22 +0000 ironkurtin 1185196@https://youlookfab.com/welookfab/ To me morality is about right and wrong ethically. To judge someone's morality based on their body is I suppose possible but it seems to me the more appropriate term for this discussion is "judge." I do not assume someone is morally good or evil because of their body type, but because of their behavior, and even there body language and context is more important than the body shape that is making it. So I suppose idiot men might assume big tits mean the girl has "loose morals" but that is a very limited definition of the term morals, which comes pre-laden with ideas about sexual behavior - namely, that "nice" girls don't, because sex is somehow bad. There are many things I reject about this idea, but the biggest one for this discussion is that sex is by definition immoral, so anyone found sexy is therefore immoral. That is my pushback on the term morality here. It's based on a (to me) erroneous definition of the term. And may I say again that sometimes men's sense of sexual entitlement really sucks. adorkable on "bodies and morality" https://youlookfab.com/welookfab/topic/bodies-and-morality/page/2#post-1185183 Wed, 05 Mar 2014 15:29:11 +0000 adorkable 1185183@https://youlookfab.com/welookfab/ @MaryK: I think we might've cross-posted. Team Get On With It for myself, Team Be Outraged on everyone else's behalf. @Claudia: Ugh. Ugh. Ugh. I had some of that from 13 to 15, and it was really awful. I remember sort of liking the attention on the one hand, because I was 13, but I also knew that there was something about it that I didn't understand and that had some teeth to it. Coming back to clarify for a few people, I do actually think "morality" is the right word for it - I mean a specifically moral type of judgment. People feel like they've got the right to judge some folks and not others on the basis of their bodies. That's messed up. Claudia on "bodies and morality" https://youlookfab.com/welookfab/topic/bodies-and-morality/page/2#post-1185170 Wed, 05 Mar 2014 15:02:31 +0000 Claudia 1185170@https://youlookfab.com/welookfab/ Agree with Steph. Lived it. My high school years were made miserable by offensive and inappropriate sexual attention because of my figure and height. I had the body of a woman in a man's wet dream while still emotionally and mentally a girl. The grown men were the scariest. My twenties out in the workforce, same shit. Please, this is not bragging, it scars you in ways that take decades to understand. When you look this way, it can also make other females uncomfortable to be around you when there are also males present. You can feel it in the air, and it is real.  MsMary on "bodies and morality" https://youlookfab.com/welookfab/topic/bodies-and-morality#post-1184994 Wed, 05 Mar 2014 05:57:18 +0000 MsMary 1184994@https://youlookfab.com/welookfab/ This is a gigantically hot-button topic for me but I have to tiptoe in and agree wholeheartedly with Steph that Team Get On With It is all well and good but there is real discrimination out there and we need to be careful that Team Get On With It doesn't morph into Team Suck It Up Because It's Your Own Fault Anyway. And Rachylou, yes!  Kate Harding used to talk about how people got so upset at her for daring to "be fat at them!"  LOL adorkable on "bodies and morality" https://youlookfab.com/welookfab/topic/bodies-and-morality#post-1184969 Wed, 05 Mar 2014 05:14:14 +0000 adorkable 1184969@https://youlookfab.com/welookfab/ Responding a bit selectively since I am really zonked today. @Vildy: I hadn't heard of normcore. It kind of ... makes me sad. I don't care if people want to conform, but if the end result is more judgment... @Linda: I love, love, love her - thanks so much for sharing! @mrseccentric: Ugh to all of it, but those are exactly the kinds of issues I'm thinking of. I really appreciated your stories and input! @rachylou: "Things turn into moral judgement when people insist (erroneously) the object of their feelings causes their feelings..." Amen, amen, amen! Couldn't have said it better myself! adorkable on "bodies and morality" https://youlookfab.com/welookfab/topic/bodies-and-morality#post-1184955 Wed, 05 Mar 2014 04:50:13 +0000 adorkable 1184955@https://youlookfab.com/welookfab/ I haven't been checking in today, so please have some patience with me as I go through and respond, a few at a time. I will start by saying I suppose it's obvious that I am pretty wildly political. I'm quite thick-skinned, also, so I don't ever feel particularly personally troubled by someone calling *me* slutty for my body type - it's about the bigger issue of injustice, and who it does or does apply to. Jaime on "bodies and morality" https://youlookfab.com/welookfab/topic/bodies-and-morality#post-1184914 Wed, 05 Mar 2014 04:13:42 +0000 Jaime 1184914@https://youlookfab.com/welookfab/ I ultimately agree with Angie and others here. No one is thinking about us nearly as much as we think about ourselves. Which is not to say I still don't remember the first time I was called a slut at age 11 or so because I developed relatively early. rachylou on "bodies and morality" https://youlookfab.com/welookfab/topic/bodies-and-morality#post-1184439 Tue, 04 Mar 2014 20:14:21 +0000 rachylou 1184439@https://youlookfab.com/welookfab/ Well now, an interesting question. And interesting replies. We all assess things constantly, and have to. Talk to this person, or that one, or no one at all. Have we got the time, have we got the money, have we got the bandwidth to handle the sort of troubles they'll bring with them. That last one, that's where I think making moral judgements about other people comes in. But I'm not sure how direct the line is. I confess I come from fat-haters, but I think the moral judgement starts out as a self-doubt most of the time. As in, "I think I'm too active to match pace with this person." Big boobs, same thing. To be honest, I think they hold a kind of morbid fascination for most people. Some people, tho, are frightened by them, and others think you're just a hot mama. Things turn into moral judgement when people insist (erroneously) the object of their feelings causes their feelings... mrseccentric on "bodies and morality" https://youlookfab.com/welookfab/topic/bodies-and-morality#post-1184430 Tue, 04 Mar 2014 20:07:57 +0000 mrseccentric 1184430@https://youlookfab.com/welookfab/ Thank you Gaylene and Dana (big hug) steph catgirl on "bodies and morality" https://youlookfab.com/welookfab/topic/bodies-and-morality#post-1184417 Tue, 04 Mar 2014 19:54:53 +0000 catgirl 1184417@https://youlookfab.com/welookfab/ All I know is that nothing gives me more joy than challenging someone's assumptions about me as a small brown female. To quote MaryK, underestimate me at your peril! shiny on "bodies and morality" https://youlookfab.com/welookfab/topic/bodies-and-morality#post-1184380 Tue, 04 Mar 2014 18:56:44 +0000 shiny 1184380@https://youlookfab.com/welookfab/ I'm with Aziraphale on this one.  Humans are hard-wired to make snap judgments, it is simply how our brains work. We have to be able to sum people & situations up quickly. Even when one is fully conscious of this and strives to apply a rational mind, the hard wiring is still there, and always will be. Is this person threatening? Dangerous? Trustworthy? A healthy potential mate? Generous? Etc, etc... There are so many subtle cues that play into this, that have zero to do with how one dresses. Our brains make these calculations instantly, and usually without any rational awareness. A woman with 0.7 waist/hip ratio, no matter what your weight, with shiny hair, white teeth and good skin automatically translates into "potential mate." Whereas a man with a square jaw translates into as short-term partner for women who are ovulating; and men with more rounded jaws we instantly size up as long term partner material.  Our brains are often accurate, but not always. Research shows that while women are excellent at picking convicted criminals out at first sight, women are completely unable to identify the rapists.  I am short and  have a baby face; people meeting me for the first time sum me up as "non threatening" and, well, cute.... like a child... and someone needing protecting. That's not so bad. I can work with that. :-) All is not lost though: research also shows that once we've sized a new person up in those first few minutes, we file away a rough sketch of them in our brains. And then the next time we see them, we reconstruct our image according to that rough sketch. Which means, yeah, nobody is paying such close attention. We don't actually ever SEE people as they really are, we see them as we THINK they are. It's more efficient. And it means we have a big blind spot for people we see most often, day after day. Our partners and friends do not see the weight fluctuations, the bad hair days, the developing wrinkles, the outfit flops, or any of that. God bless them!  And I kept reminding myself of that while at my last business meetings. I was ultra careful about what I wore for the first day - first impressions - then did not fret so much the rest of the time. I knew nobody was seeing any of the detailed differences. They were recreating me in their brains based on the first impression.  April on "bodies and morality" https://youlookfab.com/welookfab/topic/bodies-and-morality#post-1184348 Tue, 04 Mar 2014 18:10:31 +0000 April 1184348@https://youlookfab.com/welookfab/ In spite of a common-yet-not-universal American male tendency to find women with larger breasts sexy, I don't believe that most people judge a woman who happens to have them as promiscuous.  Let's be honest -- giggling sixth-graders and high school boys in a froth of hormones and curiosity don't really count, no matter how many painful female adolescences they may be responsible for.   Mo on "bodies and morality" https://youlookfab.com/welookfab/topic/bodies-and-morality#post-1184333 Tue, 04 Mar 2014 17:49:40 +0000 Mo 1184333@https://youlookfab.com/welookfab/ Didn't someone here mention recently a high school classmate remarking about no one in her class noticing her wearing braces and the whole time she was mortified about them?  It's true, we are not the center of the universe that we can sometimes imagine we are   annagybe on "bodies and morality" https://youlookfab.com/welookfab/topic/bodies-and-morality#post-1184330 Tue, 04 Mar 2014 17:47:30 +0000 annagybe 1184330@https://youlookfab.com/welookfab/ Morality?!?! Strange choice of words. Team Angie on this one. A lot of people just get about their day, mostly ignoring others. <div>For example I commute by bus, most people do not notice others AT ALL. I once gave up my seat on a very crowded bus to a woman with a boot (orthopedic splint style) because nobody else noticed her. And I was in the middle of the bus, so had to walk by lots of people before she got to me. Or even if they do judge you they will have most likely forgotten you the next day. Most people are not memorable. Heck, I don't remember most of the patients I saw last week.</div> Aziraphale on "bodies and morality" https://youlookfab.com/welookfab/topic/bodies-and-morality#post-1184321 Tue, 04 Mar 2014 17:36:58 +0000 Aziraphale 1184321@https://youlookfab.com/welookfab/ Yep, I think we do judge. We ALL do, without necessarily intending to. We are biologically hardwired to make quick judgments. Prehistorically, it would have been maladaptive not to do this. (We tend to forget that civilization is actually quite a recent thing in the evolution of the human species). But I also think we are more than capable of modifying our assumptions if we choose to devote some brainpower to it. That's one of the things that makes humans interesting. When it comes to learning and modifying natural instincts, humans have great scope. My personal experience has been that it's harder to get taken seriously when you're small. So maybe people underestimate me at first. It doesn't take long for them to learn what I'm really like.  :-) ironkurtin on "bodies and morality" https://youlookfab.com/welookfab/topic/bodies-and-morality#post-1184319 Tue, 04 Mar 2014 17:36:21 +0000 ironkurtin 1184319@https://youlookfab.com/welookfab/ Steph, that sounds awful.  I really have to wonder what is wrong with men that they think this behavior is OK.  I encountered some harassment, but at the same time was always told that I wasn't attractive -- seems like we all get it both ways, huh?   (And to be honest I always ignored both pieces of information, because the people harassing and insulting me were men I would never, never even consider touching.  Poor pathetic dingbats.)  Which is why I thought "get on with it" was a good philosophy, because really what else can one do?  You can be unhappy or you can rise to it. I don't know what that has to do with morality, though.  I don't look at bodies and make moral judgements.  I don't assume big boobs are equated with sluttiness, or little ones with primness.  I don't even assume dressing provocatively necessarily means someone wants sex unless the person's behavior reinforces that. I admit that I do see some very large bodies and feel sorrow for the discomfort their shape must cause them physically - knees, hearts, lungs.  But that's different from assigning a moral value. rae on "bodies and morality" https://youlookfab.com/welookfab/topic/bodies-and-morality#post-1184302 Tue, 04 Mar 2014 17:23:57 +0000 rae 1184302@https://youlookfab.com/welookfab/ Sometimes I do worry about how people judge me, because a lot of my job may depend on what snap judgements people make. For example, I worry that my body may look "low class" and like I can't know about designer clothes that fit best on very slim, tall, long-legged figures.  But that kind of thinking can be such a downward spirale. I try to please myself the best I can with my image and then "get on with it" as Angie said.  Gaylene on "bodies and morality" https://youlookfab.com/welookfab/topic/bodies-and-morality#post-1184290 Tue, 04 Mar 2014 17:17:10 +0000 Gaylene 1184290@https://youlookfab.com/welookfab/ Excellent point, Steph, to remember that responding to someone else's concern with a "just ignore it" probably isn't that respectful or helpful. One of the best things about the discussions in this forum is all the insight we get into each other's experiences and thoughts. Thanks for the reminder. mrseccentric on "bodies and morality" https://youlookfab.com/welookfab/topic/bodies-and-morality#post-1184274 Tue, 04 Mar 2014 16:56:59 +0000 mrseccentric 1184274@https://youlookfab.com/welookfab/ Hi Marillen! " Some things, like large breasts = indecent are not just social but biological as well." I hadn't heard this explained biologically before, can you point me to some info. about this? Thanks! At the end of the day i root for Team Get On With It, but....it is not always easy to get to the end of the day. I have two good looking parents, and grew a body that reflected many people's ideal of beauty and sexiness. As a result, by the time i was 16 i was dressing to downplay my figure and to project a very 'covered up' vibe, very careful to not be overly friendly or familiar. But it never worked all that well....i was getting heavy sexual pressure from boys and men from the time i was around 9 or 10, the only guys with the guts to ask me out in high school were 26, 30....even i had to wonder what they saw in a 14 year old (tho one of these guys has remained a friend of the family and married a lady significantly older than he - i think he just sees people not ages :) It's harder to "just get on with it" when you forget and get into a routine at the grocery store and one of the checkers gets a huge crush on you and starts a screaming fight about why won't you go out with him, bringing the entire store  (filled with all your neighbors) to a grinding halt. You could go elsewhere, except for the car trouble and this store is closer with better food and better prices and - why?  Or you're between classes at UC, thinking about ancient archaeology and some doctor at the corner cafe decides you should marry him and, again, wants to get into a screaming match about it when you're 'oh, no thank you' and scooting away, as you never even saw this man before in your life. (And everyone is looking at you with accusation in their eyes.) By the time i reached my early twenties i had the drill down - how to dress and behave and keep the shields up constantly to avoid a lot of this stuff. But it didn't really stop so much as i took on the proactive responsibility for managing and deflecting it. Which is a pain in the ass and does not improve your relationships with your fellow human beings, in fact it can actively interfere with romance and friendships. I met my dear friend Shawn (a guy) in art class. He offered me a ride across campus after one class a few weeks in, and he still brings up how i just tensed up all over and he thought, 'oh man this lady must get hit on all. the. time.!!!' Fortunately Shawn is a nice and smart guy and didn't take it personal. And my husband gets irritated that i dress and act very modestly, esp. in public but of course you develop habits. I had to laugh when one day, at his request, i wore a cute little bust-enhancing Ann Ferriday top as we strolled around Alameda, CA on a Sunday afternoon. After a couple of hours, he just burst out, "Jesus Christ! Can't these guys stop just ogling and drooling over your breasts!!!! (insert further salty New Yorkisms)!!!!!" Frankly, all the guys that day were pretty polite, acting abashed but still taking a peek. And it got to my husband even so - i bring it up now and again :) As it happens, my mom is pretty fat and very very smart. She worked in school administration and in development at UCB during her professional life, so obviously she was very good at what she did and also a complete workaholic. And she had to deal with regular, recurring horsepucky because she was large and so 'obviously' lazy, dumb, socially inept.....incidentally, one of the reasons she carried so much weight was in order to avoid the type of attention i describe receiving in this post. Mom in her teens/early twenties looked a lot like Shelley Winters did when she was rooming with Marilyn Monroe. And yes when mom did take off some weight she got sexually harassed by her boss. Anyways, this is long (heehee, well not so long for me) and a bit rambling, but i hope it gives people a sense of what i'm getting at. Of course just wallowing in this stuff and over-intellectualizing will get you nowhere. At the same time, if it is just in your face constantly (and truth be told pretty scary at times, i've left those ones out) it takes time, practice, and skill in order to figure out how you are going to handle this attention from people who get ideas about you based on your body. It does take a lot of emotional and intellectual energy to sort all this out (which would be better spent elsewhere), and it can easily warp your personality. It does help to talk it out with other people. So i hope that my stories here and some of the other very insightful thoughts from people on thisi board help people who may be dealing with this stuff know that you're not alone, it's not all in your head, it can suck to deal with it but you can figure out a way to go forward as your authentic self and even - have fun with fashion!!!!  ;)    Happy Day, steph Linda on "bodies and morality" https://youlookfab.com/welookfab/topic/bodies-and-morality#post-1184270 Tue, 04 Mar 2014 16:48:51 +0000 Linda 1184270@https://youlookfab.com/welookfab/ I just thought I would add that if you find this discussion intriguing, you really owe it to yourself to watch/read Lupita Nyong'o's Essence awards speech.  I heard it last night on The Last Word and it is pretty amazing.  She talks about being black and feeling beautiful.  It's very relevant IMO to this thread:   <a href="http://www.msnbc.com/the-last-word/watch/speech-from-lupita-nyongo-you-didnt-hear-180931139994" rel="nofollow">http://www.msnbc.com/the-last-.....0931139994</a> LoriFLA on "bodies and morality" https://youlookfab.com/welookfab/topic/bodies-and-morality#post-1184249 Tue, 04 Mar 2014 16:27:32 +0000 LoriFLA 1184249@https://youlookfab.com/welookfab/ I completely agree Angie!   Janet, I'm with you.  I'm too old to care and really,  if people are out there making assumptions and judging harshly (I don't think they are… we just judge ourselves too harshly sometimes and think people are out there judging us), it's beyond my control and doesn't weigh on my mind.   And speaking of judging ourselves, I don't do that either too much in my old age.  I think this is more a problem with youth.  When I hit 40, or a couple years before,  something snapped in my brain and I was able to accept myself and accept others more graciously.  I wish I had evolved sooner, it would have saved a lot of inner turmoil, but this is life. Gaylene on "bodies and morality" https://youlookfab.com/welookfab/topic/bodies-and-morality#post-1184232 Tue, 04 Mar 2014 16:11:47 +0000 Gaylene 1184232@https://youlookfab.com/welookfab/ I'm going with Angie on this one because I think so much depends on the person, the situation, and the observer's own issues. While I truly believe that what we put on our bodies is a big part of our nonverbal communication, we can't control how our visual signals will be interpreted by others.  People make assumptions and judgements of others based on their own experiences, attitudes, and personal quirks. A small percentage of random observers will love you, a small percentage will dislike you, and the vast majority will probably be somewhere between the two extremes, or won't be interested enough to form a value judgement. I think that Vildy makes a good point about visibility. Perceptual theory tells us that we are drawn to things that we perceive as novel or unusual. If you look different in a particular setting, you may draw attention, especially if an observer is predisposed to liking, or disliking, that aspect. So be it. Ultimately, though, it's your own reaction to other people's thinking that is really important. I think part of the issue is that, as women, so many of us have been conditioned to want universal approval from others, even strangers. Even when we know, logically, that this is impossible, it can still be upsetting when someone misinterprets our signals and acts on that misinterpretation. We can't control others' reactions and judgements, but we can learn to diminish our sensitivity to strangers' assessments and lean more on the judgements of people who are important to us and our own personal feelings.