https://youlookfab.com/welookfab/topic/af-for-cool-kids-only Style Advice for Fashion Lovers en-US Wed, 29 Apr 2026 19:26:48 +0000 http://bbpress.org/?v=1.0.2 q https://youlookfab.com/welookfab/search.php https://youlookfab.com/welookfab/topic/af-for-cool-kids-only/page/2#post-930903 Mon, 13 May 2013 01:50:00 +0000 Echo 930903@https://youlookfab.com/welookfab/ And this is part of getting along in a civilized society, IMO. We all think a lot of things that would be offensive if spoken aloud. ANY marketing strategy is, by definition, exclusionary because no store/brand can (or wants to) cater to 100% of the population. Stores make decisions in terms of store layout, advertising, product content, sizing, etc. that are designed to attract certain people and deter others.<br /><br />There has been a lot of discussion, for example, about how high end brands are often unhappy to be mentioned in rap lyrics because rap listeners are not - from their perception - their target audience. But even when this was obviously apparent, most companies tried very hard to avoid outright saying that, even when everyone knew it was true.&nbsp;<br /><br />I guess the point is that we all have a feeling about which stores feel more like "us", and that isn't coincidental. It is carefully planned marketing. But every store needs to be careful about which demographic they choose to blatantly exclude ala statements like this one from A&amp;F. As evidenced by this thread, it isn't necessarily the target demographic who will be offended by the statement, but instead it is often the parent or older-than-teenaged adult. And those adults often either hold the purse strings or do a lot of gift buying. In my eyes, A&amp;F is risking alienating the demographic with the income to spend on school clothing, holiday gifts, etc. And while all other stores may feel the same way, NOT saying it will gain them more customers, IMO. https://youlookfab.com/welookfab/topic/af-for-cool-kids-only/page/2#post-930337 Sat, 11 May 2013 21:53:39 +0000 Angie 930337@https://youlookfab.com/welookfab/ SPOT ON, Jules. Thanks for succintly putting into words what has been in my head. Truly, most marketing strategies sound offensive when spoken aloud because they are&nbsp;<i></i>NOT<b><i> </i></b>diverse and inclusive. Target markets are elitist. Jefferies was as brave <i><b>as he was foolish,</b></i> to say how it is. <br /> https://youlookfab.com/welookfab/topic/af-for-cool-kids-only/page/2#post-930304 Sat, 11 May 2013 21:17:26 +0000 RoseandJoan 930304@https://youlookfab.com/welookfab/ To be honest I think most marketing strategies would sound equally appalling if spoken aloud, the store is echoing the elitist behaviour of it's target demographic. He is confusing popular with cool, popular is bland and cool is elusive. Cool kids would not wear A&amp;F. https://youlookfab.com/welookfab/topic/af-for-cool-kids-only/page/2#post-930001 Sat, 11 May 2013 04:13:36 +0000 lyn* 930001@https://youlookfab.com/welookfab/ Uh, probably when it gets so tight it pulls. I think the thing that bothers me is the lines that pop out when clothes are too tight, you know?<br /><br />Because when I wear the clothes again, I see the lines everywhere, even if they're not really there.<br /><br />Sorry if anyone is offended I didn't mean it that way. https://youlookfab.com/welookfab/topic/af-for-cool-kids-only/page/2#post-929849 Fri, 10 May 2013 23:59:34 +0000 catgirl 929849@https://youlookfab.com/welookfab/ lyn, as slender as you are, you are probably going to see mostly people larger than you, right? &nbsp;I'm curious about what the differential is before you feel that sense of "oh no, can't wear this any more". &nbsp;<br /><br />I try hard not to give in to body dysmorphia but it is hard on my end to hear people saying "0 doesn't fit me" even though I know that in terms of a problem it's&nbsp;just as much of a fit issue as "my shoulders are big enough to need a size 8 in this brand." And I am petite myself! <br /><br />&nbsp; https://youlookfab.com/welookfab/topic/af-for-cool-kids-only/page/2#post-929770 Fri, 10 May 2013 21:55:33 +0000 siniestra 929770@https://youlookfab.com/welookfab/ Well funny thing i would be very pleased if they pay me for not wearing their clothes! jeans make u buttocks look flat and their clothing isn't very fashionable more likely boring and plain ...i love the aura tho but never go to the grove in cowboy boots lol THe grove in LA have 2 floors and i fall from the stairs because of the lightning in the stairs. I could sue them but nah! i def just promise my self never buy there plus their clothing are in most of the racks of goodwill and army salvantion ...what's the point of having this ignorant point of view i bet there are ppl not very appealing for them using their clothes. &nbsp;Plain stupendous! lol https://youlookfab.com/welookfab/topic/af-for-cool-kids-only/page/2#post-929658 Fri, 10 May 2013 18:39:46 +0000 rachylou 929658@https://youlookfab.com/welookfab/ Oh whoa! Creepy! Eeks. Alien man-face.<br /><br />It's very weird and complex. You have bitter wannabes and you have real phonies, if you know what I mean. Like Joan Rivers is a real phoney in my book. She just loves plastic surgery and alien-face. There are people whose face is their artistic canvas. They want their face to be deliberate and their surgery to show, and so sorta by accident they want to be creepy looking. Then there are those who are "not somebody" on the inside and they get creepy plastic surgery because they're confused.<br /><br />And the rudeness and exclusivity. Thing is, that's a sales strategy that works. At the same time... well, let me put it this way, A&amp;F is no Hermes. Can we say "oxymoronic"?<br /> https://youlookfab.com/welookfab/topic/af-for-cool-kids-only/page/2#post-929603 Fri, 10 May 2013 17:30:01 +0000 Mochi 929603@https://youlookfab.com/welookfab/ Thanks, rachy. I had wanted to hear that date story. Yikes. So funny. He probably thought you had narcolepsy.&nbsp;<br /><br />You are interesting in your analyses, too. I had also forgotten to mention another much older factoid from A&amp;F customer service manual. They apparently train their salespeople to be rude. To ignore customers who come in. Perhaps more rudely the uncooler you appear to be, but in general be rude, ignore.&nbsp;<br /><br />The other thing I realize is mean and petty of me, but I don't care, heh. This CEO has his cynical and intentional ideas for creating demand through exclusion. But I also suspect he has major personal issues as well. Here's one of his pics. Plastic surgery seems very very likely.&nbsp;<br /><br /><a rel="nofollow" href="http://www.clutchmagonline.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/05/mike-jeffries-AF-620x358.jpeg">http://www.clutchmagonline.com.....0x358.jpeg</a><br /><br />He comes across as really trying to make up for, uh, not having been one of the "cool kids." https://youlookfab.com/welookfab/topic/af-for-cool-kids-only#post-929580 Fri, 10 May 2013 17:11:44 +0000 rachylou 929580@https://youlookfab.com/welookfab/ The subject of A&amp;F really interests me because I'm so allergic to their perfume, which they spray so much of that it wafts three stories up into the parking lot. Not only can I not go into A&amp;F itself, I also cannot park three stories above it.<br /><br />That said, I have, of course, tried to go in and see what's what. I've done two run-throughs holding my breath (and then yes, had to throw up afterwards). As far as I could tell they sold wife beaters (yes, offensive term) and jeans. Everybody sells those. One must conclude the actual goods then don't matter. It's the gestalt of the tribal experience.<br /><br />It's human nature to be tribal. I accept that until one tribe starts attacking another. I start getting suspicious when one tribe worries what I consider to be too much about what other tribes are doing, works too hard at widening the separation. That's the lead up to going Ruby Ridge (holing up with grenades in the woods and a cow for milk). Not that I think A&amp;F'ers do more than hole up at Club Med in Cancun. But you know, fostering a culture of permissiveness there.<br /><br />Anyways, the A&amp;F tribe also interests me (from a big BIG distance)(haha, yes, that's an ironic joke) because I don't know how you can live with yourself and <i>be that boring</i>. I am going to tell my worst-date-ever story again now. That dude was an A&amp;F'er. Hella good looking. And he was so dull I fell asleep in my chair, sitting up, in public, in a restaurant. I TIPPED OVER. He/we talked about his last girlfriend's boob job, motorboats, Jamaica, 5-year plans... I mean, what is there to say about that stuff?<br /> https://youlookfab.com/welookfab/topic/af-for-cool-kids-only#post-929457 Fri, 10 May 2013 13:50:50 +0000 velvetychocolate 929457@https://youlookfab.com/welookfab/ It makes sense that stores will only carry a certain range of sizes or selection of items. For instance - my family's business could sell all 27 versions of a particular tool, but they mainly just carry three of them. There's no way they'd want to buy every single style, and keep them all in inventory. Of course if someone wants a particular item, it can be brought in especially for that customer. <br /><br />Fine. Makes perfect sense to me. <br /><br />But I really dislike the way this company (A&amp;F) has chosen to "explain" why they don't carry a wider range of sizes. I find it offensive, and it certainly does nothing to increase their "cool-ness" in my view. Geesh! <br /><br />I suppose though, that perhaps this might be just a rather rude way of trying to generate attention/get media stories etc. ? Trouble is, this can really backfire on a company. <br /><br /><br /> https://youlookfab.com/welookfab/topic/af-for-cool-kids-only#post-929410 Fri, 10 May 2013 12:31:14 +0000 Mochi 929410@https://youlookfab.com/welookfab/ That is so bizarre. Where does it stop? Are people going to ditch their jeans or oxfords because someone "less attractive" wore the same shoe style? I can't imagine myself feeling reflected in any way in someone else's choice of clothes. Particularly if they looked "bad" in a similar outfit, you'd think it would make the thinner or "prettier" person look that much better in contrast, no? Wow, it's hard to believe. SMH.<br /><br />(I think all those women look cute in their modcloth dresses. Sorry they ruined it for you, though!) https://youlookfab.com/welookfab/topic/af-for-cool-kids-only#post-929319 Fri, 10 May 2013 04:39:48 +0000 ClaraT 929319@https://youlookfab.com/welookfab/ <p>Honestly, thanks everyone for the comments. It's so interesting to see the discussion wander from A&amp;F's attitudes about us to our perceptions of ourselves. </p> https://youlookfab.com/welookfab/topic/af-for-cool-kids-only#post-929230 Fri, 10 May 2013 02:22:10 +0000 Krista 929230@https://youlookfab.com/welookfab/ @Lyn - That's very interesting. &nbsp;As someone who purchases clothes from the XL and size 16 rack for a lot of things, I struggle a little with the idea that how I wear an item might affect your view of it for yourself - it's kind of hard to hear, if you know what I mean!&nbsp; But that's about me and&nbsp;I definitely&nbsp;appreciate the&nbsp;clarification. I don't want to hijack Clara's thread any further -&nbsp;&nbsp; we're all here for our own fashion journey and I think this thread has definitely helped me grow a little more. &nbsp;Cheers! https://youlookfab.com/welookfab/topic/af-for-cool-kids-only#post-929208 Fri, 10 May 2013 01:57:50 +0000 lyn* 929208@https://youlookfab.com/welookfab/ @ Krista - Yes; it has nothing to do with how the shirt looks on you, when I see it on me, I don't see it in the same way again ...<br /><br />The latest thing this has happened for was a sheath dress with flowers on it - whenever I see the dress now, I don't actually see the flowers anymore, just the way it fit on that other lady (who was probably wearing about 2 sizes too small).&nbsp;<br /><br />:| It's kind of weird, I guess.<br /><br /><br /> https://youlookfab.com/welookfab/topic/af-for-cool-kids-only#post-929082 Thu, 09 May 2013 23:25:00 +0000 rachylou 929082@https://youlookfab.com/welookfab/ Um, lyn*, sweetie... that's weird. Hehe. But it is what it is... altho that <i>is</i> also some money down the drain. In any case, tho, things do look extraordinarily different on different people and I've noticed.&nbsp; My oldest, dearest friend is just a little bit of a thing, not even clearing 4'11". I'm seven inches taller than her. I could never in a million years be jealous of her because we are <i>that </i>different<i>.</i> If we wore the same thing - and I believe we have - you'd never know it was the same.<br /><br />Seeing is one of the hardest things to do. I mean really seeing as things are, as opposed to how the brain forms the picture in your head.<br /> https://youlookfab.com/welookfab/topic/af-for-cool-kids-only#post-929071 Thu, 09 May 2013 23:09:54 +0000 Krista 929071@https://youlookfab.com/welookfab/ Interesting discussion here - thanks for starting this thread, Clara! &nbsp;I am with Gaylene 100% on this.<br /><br />Lyn - just to clarify - if you and I buy the same shirt at Ricki's and you are wearing it in a S or XS and I am wearing it in an XL (my actual size), and you see me wearing the shirt,&nbsp;this might affect your opinion of your shirt and make you feel&nbsp;you need to get rid of it? https://youlookfab.com/welookfab/topic/af-for-cool-kids-only#post-928424 Thu, 09 May 2013 08:42:15 +0000 Irene 928424@https://youlookfab.com/welookfab/ I wouldn't get rid of a garment I owned just because I saw it on someone larger (but never been there, so I can't be sure). It is true though that a piece of clothing doesn't favor everyone at equally.<br /><br />This is one of the (many) reasons I am against school uniforms. It is bad enough that teenagers dress all the same per se (skinny jeans, tight tops) but at least there is a possibility to escape that and dress differently if you want to. However, if everybody is wearing the exact same set of blouse and skirt, it is hard to not notice that the girl next to you looks better than you in the skirt. That has to be harmful on a teenager. <br /><br /><br /> https://youlookfab.com/welookfab/topic/af-for-cool-kids-only#post-928395 Thu, 09 May 2013 05:39:00 +0000 lyn* 928395@https://youlookfab.com/welookfab/ @ AJ -&nbsp;Possibly. I talked to another one of my friends who was about my size, and she said she felt the same way - so I'm not sure if this is normal? Or just really weird? I think she might have the same type of body image issues I do, though, although I haven't talked to her about this.<br /><br />I now generally avoid buying things available in larger sizes (Closet UK only makes up to a size 14 UK, sometimes a 16 UK - their smallest is an 8 UK, and I am generally a 10 or a 12)&nbsp;otherwise it gets pretty expensive if I want to get rid of things just because a larger person wore them.&nbsp;<br /> https://youlookfab.com/welookfab/topic/af-for-cool-kids-only#post-928388 Thu, 09 May 2013 05:25:26 +0000 AJ 928388@https://youlookfab.com/welookfab/ Lyn*, I remember in the past that you mentioned you have "some body dysmorphic traits."&nbsp; Do you think that has to do with you wanting to get rid of a&nbsp; garment just because you saw it on a larger person?<br /><br /> https://youlookfab.com/welookfab/topic/af-for-cool-kids-only#post-928318 Thu, 09 May 2013 03:55:44 +0000 Isabel 928318@https://youlookfab.com/welookfab/ I don't have a problem with having a range of sizes...but I have a huge problem with the reasoning behind it. To say that only that range is "beautiful" or only that skinny blondes with big boobs are beautiful, is really awful and antiquated. Unfortunately, it is were teenage girls love to shop. And he is playing into their insecurities. That makes me mad as all get out too. It used to be that kids felt "cool" &nbsp;or "in" because of their clothes. NOw it defines their beauty too ? &nbsp;If anyone is ugly, it is that CEO. https://youlookfab.com/welookfab/topic/af-for-cool-kids-only#post-928316 Thu, 09 May 2013 03:54:39 +0000 Isabel 928316@https://youlookfab.com/welookfab/ I don't have a problem with having a range of sizes...but I have a huge problem with the reasoning behind it. To say that only that range is "beautiful" or only that skinny blondes with big boobs are beautiful, is really awful and antiquated. Unfortunately, it is were teenage girls love to shop. And he is playing into their insecurities. That makes me mad as all get out too. It used to be that kids felt "cool" &nbsp;or "in" because of their clothes. NOw it defines their beauty too ? &nbsp;If anyone is ugly, it is that CEO. https://youlookfab.com/welookfab/topic/af-for-cool-kids-only#post-928239 Thu, 09 May 2013 03:08:35 +0000 lyn* 928239@https://youlookfab.com/welookfab/ Well, I think some things just don't look that nice. In fact, if I see it on a "larger" person, I probably wouldn't buy it - but this is my opinion. For example, this is one of the dresses on Modcloth and is terribly adorable and would be something I would normally buy right away (#1)<br /><br />This is one of the first reviews of it, who posted a picture of herself wearing the dress (#2). Even though she loves it and I'm glad of this, I don't think I see the dress in the same way afterwards.<br /><br />Other reviewers also posted their pictures (#3 to 5) and they are a range of body shapes, but I don't find this detracts from my liking of the same dress.<br /><br />I can't really explain it.&nbsp;<br /><br />Sometimes when I see larger colleagues wear the same thing, I feel strongly in a negative manner and sometimes I donate them. Even if I have previously loved the garment.&nbsp; https://youlookfab.com/welookfab/topic/af-for-cool-kids-only#post-927821 Wed, 08 May 2013 20:47:46 +0000 Irene 927821@https://youlookfab.com/welookfab/ I don't know the brand but I understand why they would target only a short range of sizes. And I also understand why they want to establish a specific target. It's called branding and marketing strategies.<br /><br />HOWEVER, just because you don't make plus sizes it doesn't give you the right to say plus-sized people are not attractive and treat them like they are the pest. That is downright insulting.<br /> https://youlookfab.com/welookfab/topic/af-for-cool-kids-only#post-927800 Wed, 08 May 2013 20:02:23 +0000 Gaylene 927800@https://youlookfab.com/welookfab/ Right on, Echo! I don't think Jeffries' comment would have upset so many people if he was just defending the right of designers, or stores, to choose a size range for their clothing.<br /><br />What <b>is</b> offensive is Jeffries'&nbsp; promoting the idea to a young, susceptible audience that using physical characteristics to exclude a segment of the population is what makes his clothing "cooler" than his competitors. The unspoken assumption is that targeting, and excluding, others based on physical characteristics is an intrinsic aspect of being "cool". <br /><br />A designer, or store, choosing to focus on a particular market segment is one thing, but deliberately insinuating to a impressionable audience that you ought to avoid even being in the presence of people who are not physically similar to yourself is a message that I find repulsive.<br /><br />I'll hold my nose when I go by A&amp;F but it won't be because of the perfume.<br /> https://youlookfab.com/welookfab/topic/af-for-cool-kids-only#post-927752 Wed, 08 May 2013 19:16:27 +0000 Echo 927752@https://youlookfab.com/welookfab/ No one is talking about boycotting any brand that doesn't cover all sizes. That would be ridiculous, and I don't think anyone expects any single store to carry sizes from 00 to 36, petites and talls. What people are upset about is the stated reason WHY they refuse to carry the sizes they exclude.&nbsp;<br /><br />The idea that any woman, very large or very small or anywhere in between, ought to be shamed for her size is offensive. And the idea that only people of a certain size are "worth" being part of a brand's club, as if they would somehow contaminate the clothes or the brand's reputation, is absurd and patently offensive.<br /><br />However, people need to keep in mind that A&amp;F isn't alone in their thinking. Karl Lagerfeld has certainly made offensive comments regarding women and their sizes, and yet the demand for Chanel hasn't seemed to decline.&nbsp; https://youlookfab.com/welookfab/topic/af-for-cool-kids-only#post-927595 Wed, 08 May 2013 16:25:21 +0000 rae 927595@https://youlookfab.com/welookfab/ The fallacy of their strategy is that it assumes everyone who is of a smaller size is attractive. I believe A&amp;F also paid the Jersey Shore kids to stop wearing their stuff - so so much for attractive people attracting other attractive people... clearly they didn't find JS attractive. And they are surely missing out on gorgeous people of larger sizes.&nbsp;<br /><br />It's a shame that lots of brands do this, but... hey, more love for the brands who don't follow this practice, right? https://youlookfab.com/welookfab/topic/af-for-cool-kids-only#post-927560 Wed, 08 May 2013 15:20:13 +0000 Angie 927560@https://youlookfab.com/welookfab/ What Janet, Anna and Rachy said. <br /><br />(I have to hold my nose when I go into A&amp;F too, and I LOVE perfume. But their spraying is excessive). <br /><br />Most designers do not cover all sizes - 00 to 36 (US sizes). I'm not saying it's right at all. But you'll end up boycotting most brands if that criteria forms part of your shopping ethics. <br /> https://youlookfab.com/welookfab/topic/af-for-cool-kids-only#post-927549 Wed, 08 May 2013 14:52:59 +0000 Gaylene 927549@https://youlookfab.com/welookfab/ Clara, you make a really good point that the offensiveness is not about a designer choosing to cut his/her clothing for a certain size range, nor for a store to limit the kinds of merchandise it chooses to sell. In my mind, those are perfectly legitimate choices; I might not agree with the choices, but I'm free to make my own decisions as to whether or not I'd like to buy from those designers or those shops.<br /><br />But Jeffries' comment goes way beyond this.&nbsp; His comment boils down to choosing a marketing strategy that says "buying my clothes makes you part of the cool club <i>because we'll make sure none of those non-cool, overweight people can get into our club</i>". The underlying message in this marketing campaign is associating with a particular, identifiable group of people--in this case a female who wears a size 12 or above--"taints" you. That's the same message that has been used over and over throughout history to target people on racial, ethnic, and religious grounds when the intention is to marginalize sections of society. Jeffries' message becomes even more disturbing because it is directed at a young, impressionable market. <br /> https://youlookfab.com/welookfab/topic/af-for-cool-kids-only#post-927508 Wed, 08 May 2013 14:08:33 +0000 ClaraT 927508@https://youlookfab.com/welookfab/ shoegirl, I sympathise with you as I am also quite small and some brands aren't sized for me (smallest size = too big). The article doesn't make me mad because I am personally affected by this policy, it angers me that this CEO/brand thinks it is acceptable to disparage women in this way.&nbsp;<br /><br />I don't think every brand has to or will fit everyone. But I've never heard of a brand that doesn't make my ('fashionably small')&nbsp;size because they think that I am simply unacceptable and incapable of being cool enough to wear&nbsp;their clothes&nbsp;because I'm small. This is what A&amp;F is saying to larger women (but not to men, natch).<br /><br />Notably, &gt;60% of the apparel purchasing market is plus-size&nbsp;according to the article, so it isn't really a niche market any more. The market may itself&nbsp;take care of this company in good time (the money of plus-sized women is worth the same as the money of non-plus-sized women last time I checked). A&amp;F doesn't have the cachet among middle schoolers that it used to, and I hope that's a trend. https://youlookfab.com/welookfab/topic/af-for-cool-kids-only#post-927443 Wed, 08 May 2013 12:08:29 +0000 Janet 927443@https://youlookfab.com/welookfab/ <p>What Rachylou said. Considering I have to hold my breath when I walk past their store, this just gives me one more reason to hate that brand. </p>