YouLookFab Forum » Topic: A take-off on Gryffin's post

YouLookFab Forum » Topic: A take-off on Gryffin's post https://youlookfab.com/welookfab/topic/a-take-off-on-gryffins-fan-post Style Advice for Fashion Lovers en-US Fri, 10 Apr 2026 23:24:09 +0000 http://bbpress.org/?v=1.0.2 <![CDATA[Search]]> q https://youlookfab.com/welookfab/search.php Isabel on "A take-off on Gryffin's post" https://youlookfab.com/welookfab/topic/a-take-off-on-gryffins-fan-post/page/2#post-1184121 Tue, 04 Mar 2014 14:08:46 +0000 Isabel 1184121@https://youlookfab.com/welookfab/ Wow, such incredible, fascinating thoughts. I will come back later to address. But a couple of questions, can you tell if other people are getting your "message" and if not or they don't seem to notice, are you disappointed ?  We want to "express" ourselves but at the same time not be misjudged or ourselves judge others.  We want people to "know" something about us through our sartorial expression yet we think it should strictly fall on the clothes and nothing else.  Angie, it was exactly your post about not judging that got me thinking about all this while I was reading Gryffin's post.  The mannequin suggestion is really brilliant . krishnidoux on "A take-off on Gryffin's post" https://youlookfab.com/welookfab/topic/a-take-off-on-gryffins-fan-post/page/2#post-1184099 Tue, 04 Mar 2014 12:54:10 +0000 krishnidoux 1184099@https://youlookfab.com/welookfab/ Rabbit, having ROFL right now looking at the PEMCO profiles! Crafting a whole novel here. krishnidoux on "A take-off on Gryffin's post" https://youlookfab.com/welookfab/topic/a-take-off-on-gryffins-fan-post/page/2#post-1184090 Tue, 04 Mar 2014 12:35:12 +0000 krishnidoux 1184090@https://youlookfab.com/welookfab/ IK, very very interesting ! krishnidoux on "A take-off on Gryffin's post" https://youlookfab.com/welookfab/topic/a-take-off-on-gryffins-fan-post/page/2#post-1184087 Tue, 04 Mar 2014 12:30:17 +0000 krishnidoux 1184087@https://youlookfab.com/welookfab/ Suz, that is very interesting about being used to judge a text, not its writer... myself being in the same business as you, I have a different reflex: For me, characters try to pop up from these outfits I see walking around, overpowering the real person momentarily. And these characters come complete with full stories, dramas, comic or tragic (Probably because I have an overactive, bored imagination). One of the class I teach to young adults is very broadly called Communication. We explore written, and spoken forms. "Spoken" (called "oral" in French) encompasses much more than speech: movement, tone of voice, body language, eye contact and... clothes! In fact, in the textbook, there is a whole section on "What you wear affects how the message is transmitted". Actually, there is a famous pie I show my students on a powerpoint: on one side, the 3 elements: Speech - Body - Voice. On the other, the pie divided like this: 55% - 38% - 7%. These percentages represent the role each element plays in the spoken communication process. I ask the student to link each element to a percentage. Everybody links "Speech" to 55% or 38%, but here is the answer: Speech: 7%  Voice: 38% Body: 55% When someone speaks to us, we only pay attention to 7% of what this person is actually saying compared to how much attention we pay to their body and tone of voice. That is why in Spoken language, one must often repeat and rephrase the message.  "Body" here is not just body language, but also eye contact, movements and... the way we are dressed. According to the experts, communication with others (and conveying a message) doesn't start when we open our mouths, but, rather, the minute they see us; and how we are dressed DOES affect what we communicate. It colors it slightly or interferes with it completely. It adds information. We attach it to the message, but it's difficult not to attach it to the sender as well.  So what we are really doing when slapping a narrative onto a person in the street based on the way they are dressed and groomed, is interpreting part of a (not yet voiced) message. If this person comes to you and starts interacting verbally, you will have interpreted part of the message already. Imagine you come across the following people (pic one vs pic 2): which one are you most likely to respond to if they approach you with a question or if they ask you for money? ironkurtin on "A take-off on Gryffin's post" https://youlookfab.com/welookfab/topic/a-take-off-on-gryffins-fan-post/page/2#post-1183927 Tue, 04 Mar 2014 04:58:42 +0000 ironkurtin 1183927@https://youlookfab.com/welookfab/ I love what Rabbit said! Let me just clarify too (in response to Suz) that I define narrative/story extremely broadly as a result of working in interactivity. A narrative to me is often not a typical, classical "story" but a shorthand series of steps for usability. Using the ATM interface is a narrative - the story of how a person interacts with it to gain a result, good or bad. Often a bad narrative is the result of a user interface which thwarts the goal of the person interacting. So to me, my instant look at people does reveal a narrative of their clothing, based - as many have said - on my own inherent biases and background. It forms a narrative of who that person is in my own mind in regard to my own future interactions. One thing I have also learned from making games all these years is that good user interfaces seem so effortless they are scarcely noticed. Interesting to think of this idea of functional ease applied to dress. Angie on "A take-off on Gryffin's post" https://youlookfab.com/welookfab/topic/a-take-off-on-gryffins-fan-post/page/2#post-1183900 Tue, 04 Mar 2014 04:17:13 +0000 Angie 1183900@https://youlookfab.com/welookfab/ Really, really love what Shevia and Suz wrote. I'm hugging you both. xo Suz on "A take-off on Gryffin's post" https://youlookfab.com/welookfab/topic/a-take-off-on-gryffins-fan-post#post-1183898 Tue, 04 Mar 2014 04:14:58 +0000 Suz 1183898@https://youlookfab.com/welookfab/ Wow, what a fascinating and rich discussion! Thank you for this, Isabel. And I'm eager to read the book you recommended.  I really try to do as Angie says -- judge the outfit, not the wearer -- and it comes pretty easily mainly because I'm experienced at this in another (also aesthetic) context -- in my role as writer and editor, I judge the product, not the person who made it. Writing IS revision -- and over time it becomes second nature to look with dispassion on any given piece of work.    I think a narrative and a message are actually different (going back to gryffin's thread now). A narrative can express or contain a message, but it's always more than the message.  A message you can telegraph -- in part, though your visual presentation, including clothing.  And we all telegraph those messages whether we are consciously trying to or not. Along the lines of what Claire said. Here are a few more examples:  "I'm upbeat and cheerful." (Bright colour)  "I care about the past and my family." (Wearing sentimental jewellery, say, a locket.)  "I'm active and fit." (Wearing gear.)  And so on.  Of course, those messages can be false or misinterpreted (maybe wearing gear signals "not caring" to some or the sentimental jewellery is actually a fashion affectation and has no relationship to the person's actual emotional life).  Is that a story, though? Not really. The story would be a whole lot richer and more complex. And I do think that many times we do imagine a story  -- typically when somebody falls outside the norm for our world -- as you and others have mentioned. In fact, when people fall way outside the norm, maybe we HAVE to build out a full narrative in order to explain them to ourselves.  With most people we simply look, subliminally pick up the message (correctly or incorrectly) and go on with our day; it's only the real outliers who provoke us into looking again and since we cannot easily interpret the message we need to do more work. Hence the story.  That's excepting intentional people-watching, like Deb describes, when we entertain ourselves by making up little narratives about anybody who happens to walk past and catch our eye.  Jaime on "A take-off on Gryffin's post" https://youlookfab.com/welookfab/topic/a-take-off-on-gryffins-fan-post#post-1183873 Tue, 04 Mar 2014 03:43:43 +0000 Jaime 1183873@https://youlookfab.com/welookfab/ Like Deborah I am reading this first thing in the morning, and finding it completely absorbing even with my half awake brain. TG your comment about the switch from showing off labels to showing off elusive quality as the ultimate sign of elitism is very interesting. I don't really believe that anyone can rise above the myriad of quick judgments we make (and that advertisers exploit) and the best we can do is accept that we make quick judgments and try to reconsider them later. I do think we often dress for our own narratives and they might not match the assumptions that people around us are making, which are for one thing probably much more general and simple. rabbit on "A take-off on Gryffin's post" https://youlookfab.com/welookfab/topic/a-take-off-on-gryffins-fan-post#post-1183789 Tue, 04 Mar 2014 02:20:50 +0000 rabbit 1183789@https://youlookfab.com/welookfab/ I agree with torontogirl and caro, that lifestyle advertising is all pervasive, and that while I might be immune to certain messages (I've done consumer testing and Carnival cruise lines advertising looks like the worst time ever to me), there are others that ping me where I live -- like the Whole Foods weekly flyer and store design.   Also the radio ads for PEMCO insurance are so incredibly specifically targeted for the Pacific Northwest, they are hilarious in their accuracy, and therefore compelling to me as a resident. <a rel="nofollow" href="http://www.werealotlikeyou.com/">http://www.werealotlikeyou.com/</a>    The really insidious thing is that no matter what micro-demographic you fall into, the message is still the same.  You can purchase things to have the home life and leisure time you desire.  But I try to remind myself, isn't it the opposite?  Isn't it when you aren't out purchasing things or earning money to pay for your purchases that you have those two things?  (Your Money or Your Life really made an impact on me when I read it right out of college, but I continuously forget the lesson.) Anyway, back to the question about what others wear and how you read/interpret it.  I honestly think it has everything to do with me, and my subconscious and conscious biases and privileges and very little to do with them.   Malcolm Gladwell in 'Blink' talks about how very dangerous and pervasive snap assessments can be when coupled with subconscious institutional racism, sexism, and classism.   I think about the link to clothing, and events like Travyon Martin national hoodie day which try to shed light on these 'blink' assessments that we all make. Anyway, to the question of women wearing tight clothes or dressing 'younger'.  This isn't something that triggers me -- I have other triggers related to clothes.  Partly because I don't initially think of them as victims, and I don't mind sexual expression and openness.  (I'm 100% sure I get this from my mother).  Although I do wince a little at uncomfortable shoes, because I can barely walk in heels myself so I project.   But I know I make assumptions about wealth, and I know I don't know enough to make those assumptions accurately, simply because I'm unfamiliar with the markers and signals in worlds I have never inhabited. Angie on "A take-off on Gryffin's post" https://youlookfab.com/welookfab/topic/a-take-off-on-gryffins-fan-post#post-1183763 Tue, 04 Mar 2014 01:50:46 +0000 Angie 1183763@https://youlookfab.com/welookfab/ (High five, Caro).  With all my heart I believe it's best to judge the outfit and not the person.  <a rel="nofollow" href="http://youlookfab.com/2014/02/11/judge-the-outfit-not-the-person/">http://youlookfab.com/2014/02/.....he-person/</a> When evaluating an outfit, imagine that you are seeing it on a mannequin. That way you formulate an opinion about the aesthetics without making unfair and inaccurate judgements about the wearer.  Here is another point of view regarding the extravagant branded item purchase. In some Eastern cultures, buying a Chanel or Hermes bag (or the like) is a sign of great achievement that deserves extreme recognition. It was bought cash. And the narrative goes.........that if you have this amount of cash to spend on yourself or a loved one, you are successful in life. This is a sought after life goal, and thought of as the absolute opposite of superficial.  Anonymous on "A take-off on Gryffin's post" https://youlookfab.com/welookfab/topic/a-take-off-on-gryffins-fan-post#post-1183752 Tue, 04 Mar 2014 01:33:54 +0000 Anonymous 1183752@https://youlookfab.com/welookfab/ Isabel, you are so sweet! I've been around, reading mostly. It seems like the forum is a big game of jump rope with two ropes going and I'm standing on the sidelines trying to get up to speed enough to jump back in, lol! After just peeking at your outfit post yesterday, I'm all eeek, there's even more to read, since I don't know about Jen's daughter, but I'm sorry to hear that your SIL did pass. It was nice of you to honor them with your outfit.  It's interesting to learn about narratives because I have learned how interesting it can be to strike up a conversation with someone who looks really spikey-bristley scary with their style. They are usually as nice as all get out, but I wonder what all the sartorial armor is for, do they want to keep everyone away, or have they been hurt or taken advantage of in some way that makes them need to protect themselves now? Most of the narratives that I assign to other women on the street are (total honesty here, be gentle with me) 1. I'm busy/harried/hurried and I'm opting out of style (but you should see me all decked out on a Saturday night!) 2. My youth is slipping away, but look: I can dress exactly like my teen daughter!  3. I'm really comfortable with my body and my life and I've settled into a comfortable uniform. So what if it doesn't flatter me, I'm thoroughly enjoying myself. . 4. I'm going to or coming from work, so that's why I'm dressed nicely.  Okay there are a lot more but I'm losing daylight and I've got to go out and walk. Helena on "A take-off on Gryffin's post" https://youlookfab.com/welookfab/topic/a-take-off-on-gryffins-fan-post#post-1183747 Tue, 04 Mar 2014 01:29:20 +0000 Helena 1183747@https://youlookfab.com/welookfab/ This thread is really interesting; I keep coming back to it. Caro, I should not have said I am immune to marketing - I should have said 'vigilant' perhaps, as you are quite right, no one is immune, that's why it works! Krishnidoux, that is such an interesting and wise point you've made. I wrote a blog post once about hoodies, as so much of what I read about mom style was judging moms in hoodies or sweats who have "let themselves go" and I thought, we wouldn't look at a surgeon in scrubs and say, woah, bad outfit he's (or she - beside the point) really let himself go. Why say that to a woman who is dressing for her job of motherhood?  That 'let themselves go' line seems to be primarily (not entirely) reserved for women who have something on their mind other than clothes (a la Einstein). The judgement on women goes far beyond 'appropriate to the situation, which is arguably more reasonable to judge (e.g. Gryffin's point that a teacher's professionalism in dress was a hint at their overall professionalism)'. I think. Still pondering. Isabel on "A take-off on Gryffin's post" https://youlookfab.com/welookfab/topic/a-take-off-on-gryffins-fan-post#post-1183743 Tue, 04 Mar 2014 01:22:23 +0000 Isabel 1183743@https://youlookfab.com/welookfab/ Khrish, yes ! I had not thought of that. All the young women vying to be princess but there can only be one and the princess picks her. And the other girls are always jealous and/ or saboteurs . Like when the Bachelor first started. I found it demoralizing that all these young were in competition just to be "picked". Though now they have the Bachlorette. ; ) I suppose that I want to be more in tune with what someone wants me to know rather my only thinking about it when it is NOT appealing. I guess that I want the whole world to be like YLF. A safe place to be who you want to be. Isabel on "A take-off on Gryffin's post" https://youlookfab.com/welookfab/topic/a-take-off-on-gryffins-fan-post#post-1183737 Tue, 04 Mar 2014 01:15:07 +0000 Isabel 1183737@https://youlookfab.com/welookfab/ Aileen, or damn that woman is smart. Remember, Coach bags were first marketed as forever, one is all you need for the rest of your life , bags. But then they had to increase volume for more profit. So the story had to change ! hahaha krishnidoux on "A take-off on Gryffin's post" https://youlookfab.com/welookfab/topic/a-take-off-on-gryffins-fan-post#post-1183735 Tue, 04 Mar 2014 01:13:27 +0000 krishnidoux 1183735@https://youlookfab.com/welookfab/ I am enjoying this conversation so much. Lots of wisdom and lucidity here!  Isabel, I am guilty of doing the same thing as you (looking at others and trying to detect their narratives). In fact, we all might be. Sometimes I think, I need more compassion, but the "game" of finding other's message, exposing them by the same token, is too entertaining. (It reminds me of the Trinny and Susannah book What Not To Wear in which they portray side by side the correctly dressed woman and her poorly dressed counterpart. Under each image, a paragraph-long narrative of what their look conveys and I remember it being hilarious).  However, one thing that pulls us apart and keeps us from equality with men is, precisely, competition. This competition is learned, is imposed: who will be the fairest of them all? Or, more accurately, who will be the bad evil witch to be burned? No me, not me, we think secretly. It divides us, when we should do the opposite to defend our rights in this world. While we strive to be the Queen or avoid being the bad witch, our wages are still not on par, child care is still assumed entirely by families, prices for women are still higher, baby girls are killed and mutilated for being girls, girls are denied education, etc. etc.  I know this, often think about it, yet... I'll still analyse and judge other women on the basis of what they wear. "Oh, she made that mistake, it reads I am not aware of style but would like to think I am..." ; "Oh, she fell for this... reads recently-divorced-middle-life-crisis-confused-about-her-age". It gets me thinking... by doing this, in a sense, it's myself that I'm bashing.  JAileen on "A take-off on Gryffin's post" https://youlookfab.com/welookfab/topic/a-take-off-on-gryffins-fan-post#post-1183718 Tue, 04 Mar 2014 00:55:22 +0000 JAileen 1183718@https://youlookfab.com/welookfab/ That's funny about Coach. I have a lot of vintage bags, nearly all purchased at thrift stores for low low prices. I wonder what that means to marketers? "That bag is pretty old! Why doesn't she just get a new one?" Isabel on "A take-off on Gryffin's post" https://youlookfab.com/welookfab/topic/a-take-off-on-gryffins-fan-post#post-1183698 Tue, 04 Mar 2014 00:35:07 +0000 Isabel 1183698@https://youlookfab.com/welookfab/ Claire, I was so thrilled to see that you had commented !  I had been thinking about you last night and how much I missed you !  What a treat to have you comment. Ah....you think like me.  YES !!!  A backstory !  I never, ever have one ( I don't think ) and I don't look at other women and think of what theirs might be for me to know.  So I have to wonder, if someone dresses to "express" themselves, am I doing people an injustice by not thinking about it ?  How do people who dress to express assess if other people are getting the "communication" ?  For us it was the old Sears catalog too, along with Spiegel and LL Bean.  And Vogue when I was older.  I really, really thought that I should do my gardening in a ball gown with Hunter boots on !   Or at least scrub the tub in Kate Spade. I feel like a bit of a failure for not having a backstory OR paying more attention to what OTHERS want to say through their clothes...if that makes any sense Claire.  And does my outfit yesterday even count ?  It wasn't necessarily a "story" but a bunch of things that I tried to "go" together that made me feel close to some people.  But I didn't necessarily want the people at the shoe store or the theater to think about it.   Anonymous on "A take-off on Gryffin's post" https://youlookfab.com/welookfab/topic/a-take-off-on-gryffins-fan-post#post-1183684 Tue, 04 Mar 2014 00:20:55 +0000 Anonymous 1183684@https://youlookfab.com/welookfab/ Hi Isabel! I loved gryffin's post too, although I don't think I ever commented. I tend to be pretty literal and I guess I just want people to think I look nice and put together. I don't want to look like all my clothes are second hand (even though a lot of them are). That seemed like a lame comment to make after I read some of the reallllllly deeeeeeep responses, lol! So here again, I might be out of my depth, but by "narrative" do you mean, like a backstory about the person? I remember being house-bound with two little babies in the 90's and I'd get the L.L. Bean and Lands' End catalogs in the mail (there was another one too, Speigal maybe?). I was totally sucked in by their advertising. The pictures of the model "families" made me wish that my family could dress like that, vacation like that (maybe they were trust fund babies and every day was a vacation) and do all the fun sporty things in that cool preppy way. The other catalog had pictures of a woman wearing very nice dressy clothes, sitting outside having a cup of tea and reading a book. As a young mom that was pure fantasy for me (dress clothes+outside+peace+uninterrupted tea+time to read for recreation)! I didn't want the clothes as much as I wanted the lifestyle they were showcasing.  Isabel on "A take-off on Gryffin's post" https://youlookfab.com/welookfab/topic/a-take-off-on-gryffins-fan-post#post-1183682 Tue, 04 Mar 2014 00:19:31 +0000 Isabel 1183682@https://youlookfab.com/welookfab/ IK, yes, the wow wire is tripped as you say.  But as I said at the start, and I am not proud of it,  most of my awareness has been in the "oh no" realm : scantily clad women or women in juniors' clothes that just to don't really go with the body or hair or skin...you know ? ironkurtin on "A take-off on Gryffin's post" https://youlookfab.com/welookfab/topic/a-take-off-on-gryffins-fan-post#post-1183674 Tue, 04 Mar 2014 00:14:34 +0000 ironkurtin 1183674@https://youlookfab.com/welookfab/ Isabel, I guess I did just frame it as tripping an "oh no" wire and not just a "wow" wire.  I think narratives can be very subtle.  I look at people at YLF and think, they're trying to look professional, or flatter their body, or stand out from the herd.  With that can go various metrics of success/failure, often depending on how appealing I find their narrative. Isabel on "A take-off on Gryffin's post" https://youlookfab.com/welookfab/topic/a-take-off-on-gryffins-fan-post#post-1183669 Tue, 04 Mar 2014 00:08:19 +0000 Isabel 1183669@https://youlookfab.com/welookfab/ Gyffin, I have to start paying more attention. What you say makes perfect sense. IK, of course. I said in my post that there are two areas in particular that I DO notice. And it is my prejudice. But I not really outside of that that I can think of. Deborah, that is wonderful. And thank you for being so honest. I imagine that it would be fun to try to think up what people do or where they are headed based on their dress. I particularly like it that you don't look at items individually but rather the totality of the look. That is something that I have learned so much about here at YLF. I try to schedule the deep thoughts for your evening from now on ! : ) Yes, what a great point and it goes back, I think, to what Gaylene said about remaining flexible in one's assessment. I really like the way she put it. Not being glued to what we think. I also like what Deborah said, having almost a dreamy idea and then changing it as more info comes in. I have a story that really elucidates your Einstein example. Many years ago, when I worked, I was walking down the street with a friend who was a jeweler ( I was in science ). I spotted a man who had a very long, scraggily beard and chino pants that were bell bottoms and came up above his ankle. His bushy hair was to his shoulders and his sneakers had holes. I said to my friend, ' OMG ! That is Dr. so and so ! He practically invented modern day DNA sequencing !" My friend, looking stunned, asked, " That homeless man ! How awful...what happened ? Mental illness ? " I replied, " Uh, no , he has one of the wealthiest and most respected labs at Harvard. " ROFL !!!!! To your point exactly, Caro. Caro in Oz on "A take-off on Gryffin's post" https://youlookfab.com/welookfab/topic/a-take-off-on-gryffins-fan-post#post-1183650 Mon, 03 Mar 2014 23:40:18 +0000 Caro in Oz 1183650@https://youlookfab.com/welookfab/ Just playing Devil's advocate here but what about people like Einstein? He wore slippers went he went out & obviously needed a hair cut. We know he had his mind on other things but the people meeting him wouldn't  :) :)  I also believe we are all influenced by advertising :) <a rel="nofollow" href="http://www.spring.org.uk/2010/08/persuasion-the-third-person-effect.php">http://www.spring.org.uk/2010/.....effect.php</a> Deborah on "A take-off on Gryffin's post" https://youlookfab.com/welookfab/topic/a-take-off-on-gryffins-fan-post#post-1183606 Mon, 03 Mar 2014 22:59:19 +0000 Deborah 1183606@https://youlookfab.com/welookfab/ Isabel this is very interesting and quite deep for first thing in the morning (my time) lol.  I may be going off on a tangent but prior to YLF (because we are being honest here) I confess to being quite judgemental about how people dress.  My time here has really taught me to see the person first and to try to understand their style of dress.  Sometimes I may not immediately "get" someone's outfit but I now take the time to consider and understand the things that have led them to their choices, like their personal preferences (it's ok that they are different to mine), their lifestyle, where they work, or don't work etc.  I can honestly say I see style in almost every woman I see now. As for the narrative, I love imagining people's stories based on how they dress and present.  I sometimes sit with a coffee in a busy place and people watch and imagine, based on their presentation, what they do and who they might be (in a totally non judgemental way).  As far as my own narrative is concerned I mentioned in Gryffin's thread that yes I do want and hope my clothes say the things I want them to about me, but it has a lot to do with people's perceptions as to how they read what they see. And I wouldn't give much thought to what it means that someone is wearing, for example, a luxury brand because it kind of doesn't mean anything.  Some people are in a position to purchase exactly what they want when they want and other will save for months to have that special thing.  It's just not wise to make an assessment on such a superficial level. ironkurtin on "A take-off on Gryffin's post" https://youlookfab.com/welookfab/topic/a-take-off-on-gryffins-fan-post#post-1183593 Mon, 03 Mar 2014 22:47:09 +0000 ironkurtin 1183593@https://youlookfab.com/welookfab/ Isabel, I'm sure if someone were dressing in a way that made you go, huh? you'd mention it, because it would trip your errant narrative wire. gryffin on "A take-off on Gryffin's post" https://youlookfab.com/welookfab/topic/a-take-off-on-gryffins-fan-post#post-1183588 Mon, 03 Mar 2014 22:43:41 +0000 gryffin 1183588@https://youlookfab.com/welookfab/ Well Isabel - you knew I would be fascinated by this.  A quick story: Back to school night.  I was able to correctly peg the quality of each teacher by dress. When they spoke their presentation matched the quality of that dress and this has held true over the school year.  The best teachers were well dressed, as in nicely fitted, pressed, flattering clothing and nicely groomed.  Their presentation were well organized and smoothly rehearsed.  They have run their classes well and are organized energetic and supportive teachers.  One made an effort to wear a suit but it was ill fitting with a novelty tie and hair, well lets not even go there, wild is the best description.  His presentation was erratic - so is his organiztion, his teaching and unfortunately his temper.  One teacher was wearing leggings as pants with an ill fitting slouchy top, flip flops and a messy top knot and not in a JCrew cool way.  She is disorganized, grumpy, and does not teach.  She had to regive a test because the entire class failed.  On one of Karie's threads I asked if she felt dress was indicative of the quality of a teacher (I mean Karie ia an amazing dresser and I would put a ton of money down she is super organized and meticulous but fair, supportive and approachable) and she agreed that that statement often is very true.  I don't think every group of outfits would be that telling but in a situation where there is some kind of precedent for dress, deviation from the code for good or bad makes a statement.  I do think Gaylene has a very important point.  We make snap judgements at our own risk.  It is neither fair nor wise to judge anyone.  Dress is simply a clue, then like scientists we must decide if that clue is valuable in making a discernment based on more data.  This was just a prime example of clothes really speaking and telling a true story for the men and womens who wore them. Isabel on "A take-off on Gryffin's post" https://youlookfab.com/welookfab/topic/a-take-off-on-gryffins-fan-post#post-1183456 Mon, 03 Mar 2014 19:52:36 +0000 Isabel 1183456@https://youlookfab.com/welookfab/ TG , ROFL !!!! IK, I honestly don't think that I don't think about a narrative except in outlier situations like you mentioned.  But it may subconscious as you mention.  I don't ever remember thinking while looking at someone's outfit on YLF, " I wonder what she is trying to say ?  "    I am I letting people down by NOT thinking of it or trying when THEY are trying ?  I may start asking on every WIW, " What are you trying to say, Willis ? "   ;  ) Helena on "A take-off on Gryffin's post" https://youlookfab.com/welookfab/topic/a-take-off-on-gryffins-fan-post#post-1183450 Mon, 03 Mar 2014 19:44:08 +0000 Helena 1183450@https://youlookfab.com/welookfab/ Isabel - yes - I should have noted it was your LL Bean comments that tweaked my memory about that ... so true ... or the watches, "Oh, well THIS watch you can dive to the bottom of the Marianas trench with it on!" ... when the deepest it will go on my wrist is the bottom of the kitchen sink ironkurtin on "A take-off on Gryffin's post" https://youlookfab.com/welookfab/topic/a-take-off-on-gryffins-fan-post#post-1183448 Mon, 03 Mar 2014 19:43:15 +0000 ironkurtin 1183448@https://youlookfab.com/welookfab/ Isabel, of course we notice other people's narratives.  Sometimes we do it consciously, other times unconsciously.  I can also often tell when someone thinks they're telling a story they're not, or when they don't know what they're saying, or when they really just don't care.  But honestly I don't pay that much attention to it unless it's out of the norm.  Like the two ladies I just glimpsed at LAX wearing skin-tight spandexy dresses over hugely artificially enhanced bodies, complete with full plastic-masky makeup.  They seemed comfortable in whatever message they were sending... although I did wonder why they needed to be sending it.  But live and let live, it would be awfully boring otherwise. Isabel on "A take-off on Gryffin's post" https://youlookfab.com/welookfab/topic/a-take-off-on-gryffins-fan-post#post-1183445 Mon, 03 Mar 2014 19:38:24 +0000 Isabel 1183445@https://youlookfab.com/welookfab/ Gaylene and TG.  Your points are fantastic.  Again, I want to really digest this and have a more thoughtful answer later.  TG your post is particularly interesting to me.  It reminded me of the LL Bean "lifestyle"  catalog...which is really setting a narrative of I should only consider what the experts consider, because, well, they ARE experts.  If I get board shorts, they should be what the top surfer in Australia wears (  because I can say, " Oh, John the mega-surfer in Australia wears the same boardies !  They are fantastic.  )  Even thhough the most repelling I will do is off the ladder when I change the light bulb and the said ladder tips over !  I cannot wait until you comment further.  Gaylene, yes, absolutely.  I wonder though, if one doesn't have the time to really gather more "info" how much of the closes ( "the packaging" ) really narrates.  This is fascinating. I love your  term of being "flexible" after the first impression.    Helena on "A take-off on Gryffin's post" https://youlookfab.com/welookfab/topic/a-take-off-on-gryffins-fan-post#post-1183439 Mon, 03 Mar 2014 19:33:01 +0000 Helena 1183439@https://youlookfab.com/welookfab/ What an interesting question - I am going to be thinking about this a lot. I do want to comment on the marketing piece though - having worked in the industry, I have become pretty immune to marketing. In fact, I remember reading articles say in the early 00s, that talked about the fact that brands had played out the "luxury and status" cards, showiness became widely seen as tacky, so they started to play the "quality" card ... i.e. implying that certain luxury features were actually 'required' by anyone with the savoir-faire to understand quality. For months after reading that article,I would hear people suddenly justifying purchases because of their supposed refined taste for quality ... and it was so clear to me the words had been put in their mouths by marketers! It was somewhat funny yet scary, and definitely eye-opening. I would listen to people explain why they NEEDED titanium strollers and European cars and internally roll my eyes (which I know is not nice, but I did) at how sucked into it all they were. All that to say, when you are buying because you want to portray a certain image, by all means do it if it makes you happy (I indulge in brand snobbery on occasion), but do it consciously and know that there is a machine behind the product selling a story that may or may not have any basis in reality! Hope I don't sound obnoxious I just can't stand when people get manipulated by that stuff.