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YouLookFab Forum » Topic: * https://youlookfab.com/welookfab/topic/a-philosophical-question-regarding-motherhood Style Advice for Fashion Lovers en-US Wed, 29 Apr 2026 02:35:56 +0000 http://bbpress.org/?v=1.0.2 <![CDATA[Search]]> q https://youlookfab.com/welookfab/search.php DonnaF on "*" https://youlookfab.com/welookfab/topic/a-philosophical-question-regarding-motherhood/page/3#post-992042 Sat, 27 Jul 2013 21:14:29 +0000 DonnaF 992042@https://youlookfab.com/welookfab/ Sona; As your daughter grows older and observes more families including adults, she will see that not all siblings get along and that some are estranged from one another even as adults.  Sometimes they make one another very, very unhappy.  Thankfully, my DD understood this early on and never asked me for a sibling which probably would have been impossible anyway since I had her when I was over the age of 40.  Sona on "*" https://youlookfab.com/welookfab/topic/a-philosophical-question-regarding-motherhood/page/3#post-991970 Sat, 27 Jul 2013 16:02:08 +0000 Sona 991970@https://youlookfab.com/welookfab/ I was misdiagnosed with polycystic ovarian syndrome as an adolescent and told that getting pregnant would be difficult. When DH and I got married I missed my birth control pills for two days and boom I was pregnant. We had been married less than 6 months and had dated for around 6 months prior to being married. We were in the middle of a job search driven by his research niche and within  14 months of being married: had  a baby, our first house and two new jobs .Add to that I developed severe postpartum depression that I refused to acknowledge until my husband got scared out of his mind when I suggested he have a affair since I was incapable of being emotionally or physically intimate. He found me the one woman whose entire clinical focus was on depression in women related to birth, menstruation, etc. She also did her counseling- something less than 5% of psychiatrists in the country do. She saved my life. Like Una says being a mother has opened up my life in so many ways and I will say that unconditional love is perhaps the one thing that I would have never experienced without having a child. The reason I miss my Dad so fiercely is he loved me like that: unconditionally, in spite of, despite, because of. For severe bleeding issues I had an endometrial ablation 2 years ago in order to survive adulthood without constant iron/blood transfusions. The only way we could have another child is through surrogacy. We talk about this. Bebe wants a sibling. In our hearts both DH and I want a sibling for her and another child. But I know deep in my psyche that having another child even if I do not 'birth' the child myself will strip me of my emotional and physical strength because I am a tigress mother. I feel selfish for other reasons: I want to have another baby, I want to give my daughter a sibling, I want her to have family after we are gone, I want her to celebrate holidays with loved ones. But I am not sure that I could survive raising another child because the constant anxiety and worry that I face with a baby while it may be better monitored and controlled will not give me the 'me time' that I have learned the hard, hard way that albeit I may seem selfish is what allows me to stay alive. In the end having one happy child and one happy mom and a happy family will need to trump my desire to give my husband and daughter another sibling and child. And of course me too: I want another child but I am too fragile to be able to devote most of my time to looking after another infant even with help and adoption is out of the question for us for family reasons. I have to make peace with my own demons everyday. My baby sister is pregnant with baby #2. She needed  a lot of infertility treatments to have baby #1 and  her ob/gyn never expected her to ever be able to conceive again. Am I jealous : Yes. Do I want to actually be a mom again: not so sure at all. Peace for me is so fragile. I feel afraid to tilt the scales even a bit. I have never had a 12 month free period of  a serious attempt at self harm in the 7.5 years since bebe was born. Self preservation or selfishness: maybe a bit of both but it seems like bebe will be an only child. AviaMariah on "*" https://youlookfab.com/welookfab/topic/a-philosophical-question-regarding-motherhood/page/3#post-990611 Thu, 25 Jul 2013 22:54:40 +0000 AviaMariah 990611@https://youlookfab.com/welookfab/ I'd also like to add that I think those who choose not to have are children brave.  In no way does honesty constitute selfishness. AviaMariah on "*" https://youlookfab.com/welookfab/topic/a-philosophical-question-regarding-motherhood/page/2#post-990608 Thu, 25 Jul 2013 22:51:31 +0000 AviaMariah 990608@https://youlookfab.com/welookfab/ I am so glad I found this thread; it was so therapeutic for me to read through all of your posts.   My quick story is that I found out I couldn't have children at 27 yrs old after being married for 3 years.  I was devastated to say the least and spent the next many years trying to come to terms with it.  We considered adoption but finally decided that it wasn't for us.  At some point I was able to focus on the great life that DH and I were building although that ache would pop up every once in awhile.  10 years later DH and I decided we would investigate options one more time before we hit our 40's.  We made an appt with a fertility specialist and 4 months later I was pregnant via IVF and donor eggs.  Now we have 8 month old Annie who is the sweetest thing I've ever laid eyes on.  :) Having my daughter has enriched my life in ways I couldn't have imagined and has healed me.  But I would never say that someone has to have kids to have a completed life.  For one I don't believe it and for another, that is one of the most unfeeling, damaging things you can say to someone who wants children but is not able.  The truth is that the human experience is so varied that there is is no way a blanket statement like that is applicable.   I am also interested to read how many of you only have one child.  In the next few years we will have to make the decision whether to try for one more.  From the reactions we get when we say we may just have one you'd think we had decided to raise a monster!  I'm happy to hear that so many of your only children are well balanced, happy adults and I may be coming back to this forum for advise in the next couple years!   Sara L. on "*" https://youlookfab.com/welookfab/topic/a-philosophical-question-regarding-motherhood/page/2#post-943761 Wed, 29 May 2013 03:55:36 +0000 Sara L. 943761@https://youlookfab.com/welookfab/ Such interesting stories!  I always knew I would have kids but never had a deep desire for them (or against them either).  Which sounds odd.  I don't particularly like kids and never have.  I've never been all that comfortable around them.  But my mom always told me she didn't like kids except her own.  I figured I was the same as her and I was right.  I've thoroughly enjoyed my children at every age so far, even when they were newborns (so warm and snuggly). The reason I have kids is my husband.  He absolutely loves kids and I would never have denied him the opportunity to have kids when I didn't have strong feelings one way or the other about having or not having them. Kari on "*" https://youlookfab.com/welookfab/topic/a-philosophical-question-regarding-motherhood/page/2#post-941323 Sat, 25 May 2013 05:25:06 +0000 Kari 941323@https://youlookfab.com/welookfab/ Una, I think you recounted that exact story in SoCal, and it was so helpful.  Wise words from your pal, and from you.  I appreciate women like you, mothers or no, who feel that there is room for EVERY woman to make that decision on her own without being judged. I'm now thinking I probably will want kids and could be a decent mom - but not right now.  But I've never had that biological clock or major drive to be a parent, and if for some reason it turns out not to be possible to biologically have a baby, I'm not sure if I would mind or not, and if so what steps I'd be willing to take. I'll cross that bridge when I get to it, I guess. T-Rex on "*" https://youlookfab.com/welookfab/topic/a-philosophical-question-regarding-motherhood/page/2#post-939311 Wed, 22 May 2013 21:58:30 +0000 T-Rex 939311@https://youlookfab.com/welookfab/ Also... I didn't get any pressure from my parents or close relatives to have kids. In fact, my mother told me that she was pressured to have a second child after having me, pressure that she resisted. She said that after having me, she was satisfied. So, she made a conscious decision to never pressure me about having kids. All she ever wanted was for me to be happy. I think I'm lucky to have her as a mother.  T-Rex on "*" https://youlookfab.com/welookfab/topic/a-philosophical-question-regarding-motherhood/page/2#post-939290 Wed, 22 May 2013 21:35:08 +0000 T-Rex 939290@https://youlookfab.com/welookfab/ I've never heard the clock ticking, honestly. I'm 47. If I hear it now, it will be a little too late to have a bio-kid. That said, my cousin got pregnant accidentally on a first date when she was 42. She had the kid, who is turning out great, especially with all the attention he receives. The father is a great guy, and although he and my cousin didn't make a romance work, they remain friends and he is very active in the child's life. My cousin met his new (at the time) girlfriend a few years back, and hit it off with her right away. So yay for all that! Anyway, I don't think my cousin had a huge desire to have kids, and at her age she kind of assumed it wasn't going to happen. But it did, and it's been a good thing after all.  I've always thought that if the urge to mother someone became strong enough, I would prefer to adopt an older child that might have less of a chance at finding a home. But that the desire would need to be strong before I did this. And I would need to be in a position where I had enough financial and emotional support to be able to focus on the child. This is one thing I would never want to do half a$$ed. Currently, I'm dating a guy who has already had children with a former wife and a former girlfriend. I've met all of his important exes now (former wives, girlfriends and fiances), and we have all gotten along very well. His kids, who are in their teens and early 20's now, are all terrific people. They are the kind of kids I would have wanted to have, if I had wanted kids...if that makes sense. :-)  So, whatever urge to procreate he may have had has been satisfied. So, there is no angst in our relationship about whether we should have kids or not.   I think it is wonderful that something so huge that you weren't planning on, turned out to be so emotionally satisfying. This is a good thread, too, so thank you for starting it. Aziraphale on "*" https://youlookfab.com/welookfab/topic/a-philosophical-question-regarding-motherhood/page/2#post-937133 Mon, 20 May 2013 16:20:12 +0000 Aziraphale 937133@https://youlookfab.com/welookfab/ I have not been around much these days, due to time constraints, and although this thread caught my eye a few days ago, I have not yet had time to read through the many comments.  I'm looking forward to doing so, but I'm going to write my own response first.   I was not the type of young woman who dreamed of being a mother.  I didn't play with dollies as a child.  I don't remember thinking about it too deeply, but although I wasn't dead set against motherhood, it just seemed so, so far off in the future, and not something important in the here and now.  I would decide later.  Much later. But I did have them eventually.  I think the main reason was that I married a man whom I knew would make an excellent father.  We had been together for many years -- nearly a decade -- before we decided that maybe having a baby would be fun.  At first I thought I would take a brief break from my career and have just one, and if it went well, I would consider a second.   I was young for my peer group, only 31, when our daughter was born.  I know  this isn't particularly young for a first-time mother, but none of my pre-baby friends had kids yet, and most of them lived back in Vancouver anyway and I was starting a new chapter in California, where my husband had started a new job.  I had no idea what I was doing.  I felt almost laughably incompetent.  But, as it turned out, it WAS fun.  Enough fun that, four years (to the day) later, I gave birth to a son. Like you, what I was NOT prepared for was the whole new world of worry that comes with being a parent.  Stuff happens, bad stuff, that I cannot foresee or prevent.  I cannot protect my children from everything, and even if I could, I shouldn't, because I want them to experience life fully.  I try not to let it overcome me; life is for the living, and when your number's up, it's up.  But I have come to realize that the worry is not going to stop when they're older, when they are adolescents, or even when they're adults.  I'm going to have a constant maternal antenna up, paying attention, cranking out low-level anxiety, for the rest of my life.  I don't know that anyone can really prepare you for that. In retrospect, I think my real reasons for choosing to have a first child were as follows: 1.  Husband who was clearly cut out for fatherhood 2.  Biological urge, subtler but just as real as the urge to eat, sleep or have sex And if I'm honest with myself, my reasons for having a second, after experiencing motherhood, were different: 1.  Highly positive experience with first child 2.  It almost seems silly to say this, but I realized that a child gives me a chance at immortality that I might not otherwise get.  The only other way to live on after you are gone, and all those who knew you personally are gone, is to contribute something to the greater culture that puts you, either through greatness or infamy, in the history books.  And although I can make a positive difference to the people around me while I am alive, I am unlikely to make a lasting cultural contribution.  I am not religious or even a tiny bit spiritual.  I cannot imagine how a person's thoughts can possibly survive the death of their brain.  Once you're dead, you're dead.  There are only two ways to live on.  Children are the simpler option. 3.  Realization that a child gives me a real, biological connection.  Most people take this for granted, but I was an adopted child, and while I love my (adoptive) family and have no desire to seek out my biological one, it's somehow wonderful to know that I have an intimate relationship with two little people to whom I am also biologically related.  My kids are the ONLY people in my life who fit that description.  Without them, I am a genetic island.  My children also deepen the connection with my husband's family; I am now permanently connected to them, too, in a way that I wasn't when I was a wife but not yet a mother. Phew.  That was long.  Now I'm going to read everyone else's comments! Adelfa on "*" https://youlookfab.com/welookfab/topic/a-philosophical-question-regarding-motherhood/page/2#post-936788 Mon, 20 May 2013 01:21:49 +0000 Adelfa 936788@https://youlookfab.com/welookfab/ I don't remember ever thinking about having kids, till my senior year of college when I got a job being a 20-hour-a-week nanny to an 18 month old girl. I fell in love, and knew I wanted kids. I was already dating someone I would soon marry. I had my two DDs by the time I was 26. I have to admit I did sort of pressure someone to have kids once.  In my defense: (1) I was young; (2) it was my oldest friend (known since age 9); and (3) I turned out to be right. She was getting her doctorate at an Ivy League institution and informed me she didn't want kids. I told her to think carefully about this decision (there, that was all). Twenty years later she had eight years of infertility treatments and finally produced a healthy daughter at age 50 (I was there, it really happened!) She is now a single mother to a lovely 3-year-old and I have never heard her complain once about how hard it is. For me the biggest thing about being a mother isn't the range of emotions, or even the gratification, but the sense of purpose. Through the years of raising my daughters I sometimes didn't really like my life, but I knew with 100% certainty that what I was doing was what I was supposed to be doing. Now that my daughters are grown, I miss that sense, even though I have a career and a religious faith. It's not the same. I don't know when I'll be a grandma, but I can't help wondering if some of that sense will then return. (No pressure, girls. I can wait till the time is right!) DonnaF on "*" https://youlookfab.com/welookfab/topic/a-philosophical-question-regarding-motherhood/page/2#post-935072 Fri, 17 May 2013 16:55:33 +0000 DonnaF 935072@https://youlookfab.com/welookfab/ One of the benefits of having a kid at the age of 40 is that people don't ask you, much less pressure you, about having another!  They figure she was pretty much a miracle anyway.  Also, when kiddo attended independent (i.e. non-parochial) private schools, a lot of the other kids were *onlies* so she had plenty of company.  It is pretty hard to afford $15K - $30K tuition per year for multiple kids when college tuition is still coming up. Mochi on "*" https://youlookfab.com/welookfab/topic/a-philosophical-question-regarding-motherhood/page/2#post-934909 Fri, 17 May 2013 13:41:13 +0000 Mochi 934909@https://youlookfab.com/welookfab/ Ugh. Nancylee--this is a pet peeve of mine. I have not personally had pressure on me to produce a second kid, but I really take issue with this complete falsehood that only children are disadvantaged and end up spoiled or with emotional issues. It's true that there are adjustments they sometimes have to make (going to college and having roommates, etc). But the ones I've seen, including my daughter, have been incredibly well-turned out.  nancylee on "*" https://youlookfab.com/welookfab/topic/a-philosophical-question-regarding-motherhood/page/2#post-934595 Fri, 17 May 2013 02:02:28 +0000 nancylee 934595@https://youlookfab.com/welookfab/ I never received a lot of family pressure to marry and have children; in fact, both of my parents encouraged me and my sisters to have careers and go out in the world.  I'd always loved kids and actually liked to babysit as a teen, but I never ever thought about getting married and having kids.  Not at all!  As it turned out, DH and I met in college and married a couple of years after graduation.  We were in no hurry to have kids, although we both admitted to wanting to try at some point.  Because we married so young, I never felt like I had to hurry....which was good because I didn't want a baby back then!  As I neared age 30, though, I actually did feel a biological urge to have a baby, and we both felt the emotional desire to expand our lives to include a child.  So, after being married for 7 years we decided to have a baby, our son who is now 21.  We were very lucky to not have any fertility problems, and my pregnancy was an uncomplicated--and even exciting--time for us. So, we had a baby......and never wanted another!  We were very happy with our family of three.  DH worked long hours, and we had no family close by to help out with babysitting.  One child felt like enough; it didn't seem necessary to have another just to fit some preconceived idea of what a perfect family was:  you know, one boy and one girl.  One just worked for us. So, we were fine with our decision, but WOW society was not. I received plenty of negative reactions--some subtle, some not so subtle--for having "only" one child.  Friends, family, and even strangers weighed in on the dangers of spoiled only children, or warned me that he would be lonely, etc.  One family member actually told me we were "just playing house" if we didn't have more than one child.  (Seriously!?)  I can honestly say that I received more pressure to have a second child than I EVER received to have one in the first place. <div> It was difficult to face criticism for a choosing to have one child--a choice that I had actually struggled with personally.  As a result, I made up my mind to never criticize anyone for their childbearing choices.  It is such a personal decision.  It's absolutely nobody's business.  Both of my sisters are childless by choice, and I support their right to live their lives as suits them just as I support someone who decides to have multiple children.</div> Such a tricky issue.  So many preconceived notions about what's "right."   catgirl on "*" https://youlookfab.com/welookfab/topic/a-philosophical-question-regarding-motherhood/page/2#post-933925 Thu, 16 May 2013 16:19:56 +0000 catgirl 933925@https://youlookfab.com/welookfab/ Wow, continue to be blown away by the responses on this thread and how many did not feel that NEED to have children (if you did, please share as that is totally understandable too!).  Manidipa, yes, the pressure to get married and then to have children in Indian families is beyond belief.  My own parents weren't so bad, but my AUNTS!  And every other uncle and auntie whether related by blood or not.  There is a situation in my extended family right now that I find appalling because of this kind of pressure to marry at all costs...  I understand it from an anthropological perspective, but living through it is another story! ManidipaM on "*" https://youlookfab.com/welookfab/topic/a-philosophical-question-regarding-motherhood/page/2#post-933803 Thu, 16 May 2013 14:13:16 +0000 ManidipaM 933803@https://youlookfab.com/welookfab/ I was extremely leery of having a baby... right up until I was pregnant by choice and a good while of trying! Then it just felt like the coolest science experiment ever and for tje first time I was delighted with my choice. Growing up and in my younger years, I never thought I'd do this. Didn't want to. Was unmoved by babies except to find them scary or boring. I had social and genetic issues as well... both of my first cousins on my mum's side are severely challenged. Plus one is v severely epileptic and the other autistic! Did not like this genetic soup. And knew I'd hv guardianship of both somewhere down the line. Already responsibility enough. Terrifying! But always thought if I found a partner willing to take on all of this...which too I was pretty sure was a forlorn hope...I'd adopt if he wanted kids. Or we wouldn't if he wasn't terribly keen. Thought odds were someone willing to take on the family scene would be unconventional enough to not want kids really. Our culture does not, for the most part, deem 'no kids' a choice--as Una will testify I think. There's sort of no pressure about the if; that is a given so it's only about the when. Then I met my partner and we got together after we thrashed out my future responsibilities. Was shocked to hear a few years later that he wanted kids... I hadn't even asked. And wait! He rather strongly wanted a biological offspring! O went into shocked denial, convinced relationship a huge mistake. But we managed to thrash it out--agreeing to make one and find one. Still wasn't sure I actually could handle it. Still not sure in truth. But it's been both less boring and less onerous than expected. But also, yes, sometimes still bored or feeling like a fish out of water inflicting cruel and unusual punishment on the poor mite who won't hv a truly maternal mummy. And yes, fully expect to relate better after talking and toilet training achieved. Diapers are still partner's primary duty. However, now at times I stare and am fascinated by how cool babies are and what a miracle I've made. Not in a cute ooey-gooey way but just the way they are wired and the way they grow... ans force you to grow right alongside. V v cool. celia on "*" https://youlookfab.com/welookfab/topic/a-philosophical-question-regarding-motherhood/page/2#post-933365 Wed, 15 May 2013 23:16:19 +0000 celia 933365@https://youlookfab.com/welookfab/ Thank you for starting this thread Una. I loved to read everyone's comments, all of us have different stories and perspectives and we wish for different things in our lives. It is certainly sad how in our daily life women feel compelled almost to talk by script, and I am afraid that I also do it sometimes because I don't expect such profound answers as the ones you all gave here. I always wanted to have children and I guess the part that fascinated me the most(and still does) was being pregnant.It is a process that I find almost miraculous and I always had a feeling that the connection you would feel with your baby would be something unique. But for great part of my life, until I actually tried to get pregnant in my early 30's I could not be certain that I could have children due to some ovarian issues. So for me when people around me talked about having children, especially when the grandparents in waiting seemed to think that the only good reason for DH and I to have gotten married was to have babies it hurt. Firstly because my worth was reduced to my ability to procreate and secondly because nobody (except DH) cared what impact not being able to get pregnant would have in me. Eventually I did get pregnant, loved being pregnant and love my DD. I stayed home and feel very blessed for that opportunity. I love kids , I find them fascinating. But this is not the only thing that defines me and people seem to think it is.And I am not always in motherly mode making sweet noises every time I see a baby . The only way I can get people of talking of other things to me sometimes  is to find strangers who don't know that I have a family, otherwise they seem to think that the only thing I want to talk about is kids. Back home I have friends without children and although we have talked about the reason why it was always out of curiosity or wanting to know each other better, never because I thought that every woman destiny is to have babies. And if some of them suddendly decided that after all they were going to have kids I would not think that they had to excuse themselves for 'changing their minds'. I'm sorry if I rambled.   Isabel on "*" https://youlookfab.com/welookfab/topic/a-philosophical-question-regarding-motherhood/page/2#post-933332 Wed, 15 May 2013 22:18:03 +0000 Isabel 933332@https://youlookfab.com/welookfab/ I also want to say that the one thing I NEVER saw myself doing was not working. That was so out of left field for me. But I knew that I didn't want to be away from my son so much. My mom and dad loved it.  They would have had my baby just move in.  My dad retired once my son was born so that he could be with him...but for the first year of his life, my son and I shared almost nothing together. So this is still weird to me after 10 years !  Wow, I cannot believe I just wrote that....I have been a SAHM for 10 years.  My uncle recently said to my mom, " What a waste of an education..."   Isabel on "*" https://youlookfab.com/welookfab/topic/a-philosophical-question-regarding-motherhood/page/2#post-933317 Wed, 15 May 2013 22:02:51 +0000 Isabel 933317@https://youlookfab.com/welookfab/ What a wonderful thread..thank you Una and all the ladies who have responded. It is really touching. I have a couple of friends ( several actually ) who have decided against kids. I think that they are extraordinarily brave because they get labelled as "selfish" despite the fact that they are being ultimately selfless. They have recognized that they want other things and they feel it wouldn't be fair to a child.  I never really thought much about it.  It was almost as if things would happen by osmosis without much thought. I definitely didn't have any "maternal" feelings. Sometimes, I feel that I lack them now, too.   I thought about a "family" but I never really thought about having a child. I certainly had no idea about the work and commitment involved. I always loved children, though. I spent my summers in high school working at a Head Start Program. I saw many abused children ( I will never forget a four year old that I had that couldn't talk and had cigarette burns all over his back.  I discovered them one day and reported it. It turned out it was his mother's boyfriend doing it.....and the boyfriend threatened to sue the Program. It was awful ). I got pretty early on the magnitude of getting it right.  But I didn't know what that meant or what it entailed. I definitely wasn't maternal...I think I felt more like a caretaker.  When I was about 20, I was told that I would probably never have kids ( because of endometriosis ).  It didn't really bother me. From that point on, if I thought of kids in my future, I always thought of adopted children.  Adoption was not something that was done in my culture because God decided who had children and who didn't .  But while in college, I knew many adopted people and they were so wonderful that it just seemed natural to me. One couple that attended the same church, heard of a family of 8 children in Honduras that were orphans and no one wanted the older kids, so they adopted all of them. One the oldest, 12 at the time, missed his friends terribly, they went back and adopted his 2 best friends from the same orphanage. I used to babysit and spend time with the children because I spoke a little Spanish and they liked "teaching" me. It was such a happy and wonderful family.  I saw no difference at all between adopted and biological children. ( The couple had 4 biological children. ) Then I got married ( at 32 ) and my husband really wanted a biological child. I could have gone right for adoption.  So we tried for 6 years. Including all kinds of medical intervention including IVF.  It was really tough on my body. At one point I miscarried at 16 weeks. It ended up being very complicated because I ended having major surgery because it wouldn't expel.  My doctor finally said no more. So, finally , my DH agreed to adoption. I filled out the paperwork. The day I was going to mail it in the application, my doctor called. He sounded stunned, I thought it was bad news, but he told me that I was pregnant. Spontaneously.  I feel a lot of pressure for getting my kids ready for life. I feel as if there is so much to squeeze in in 18 years, that I possibly can't do it. I worry about who will be there for them, if they will have good friends, people that they can count on. I want them to be good friends. I want them to be happy and not worry about keeping up with Joneses.  My son has been so much work because he is on the autism spectrum. So I feel a special sense of urgency for him.  It has been especially hard because of my burst artery and then the cancer. I want my kids to remember me well..and not think of their childhood as one medical problem after another and pill after pill.  Oh, and I don't want either one on the X Factor......or to be like Kim Kardashian.  ironkurtin on "*" https://youlookfab.com/welookfab/topic/a-philosophical-question-regarding-motherhood/page/2#post-933250 Wed, 15 May 2013 20:27:07 +0000 ironkurtin 933250@https://youlookfab.com/welookfab/ I was in NYC on September 11th and as I watched the buildings fall down I realized that life was short and that I wanted a baby.  My kid is my favorite person on earth and always has been.  She is my joy. I do sometimes wish I could have had another, but that is just greed.  I am truly blessed. I would never tell anyone they must have children or judge them because they don't.  I do rather wonder about the ones who have dozens they made themselves, however. rachylou on "*" https://youlookfab.com/welookfab/topic/a-philosophical-question-regarding-motherhood/page/2#post-933061 Wed, 15 May 2013 17:09:16 +0000 rachylou 933061@https://youlookfab.com/welookfab/ Oh, deb. I have to tell you, I remember the year my mother did the stay-at-home thing. So seriously not for her. I was like, this woman needs to get back to work, haha! Actually, you know, they say humans are an allo-parenting species. Babies are not raised solely by the people who, for lack of a better term, breed them. Breeding and parenting are not synonymous, which I find interesting. All adults are supposed to have a parental attitude for all children. If there's a child nearby, you are supposed to be keeping an eye out for them. With our modern nuclear family structure, we don't think of it all this way - everything is to fall on the shoulders of just two people - but that is how we're geared. deb on "*" https://youlookfab.com/welookfab/topic/a-philosophical-question-regarding-motherhood/page/2#post-932700 Wed, 15 May 2013 03:10:17 +0000 deb 932700@https://youlookfab.com/welookfab/ Such wonderful stories! I do not like babies. I know that sounds awful. When I was pregnant I want to be an elephant and carry them for two years. I HATE diapers so when I decided to have my second, I made the decision on 'diaper years'. They are 16 months apart. Only 3 1/2 years of diapers. Oh, but the terrible twos are the best. And teenagers, I just love them. I also worked because I would have been a terrible mother if I did not. Sometimes I felt guilty because I did not feel guilty about not wanting to stay home with my kids. Looking back now, I think of all that wasted energy feeding the guilt.     catgirl on "*" https://youlookfab.com/welookfab/topic/a-philosophical-question-regarding-motherhood/page/2#post-932608 Wed, 15 May 2013 01:26:50 +0000 catgirl 932608@https://youlookfab.com/welookfab/ Gaylene and Rachy, so true.  The universe messes with you in ways you never expect - sometimes my friends and I refer to it as the "Church of Random &*$%".  My sister and I were due a month apart, thrilled to be pregnant together, and then she had a full term stillbirth the month before I had my son.  We could not believe that in this day and age, in New York, under the best medical care, a baby could just be lost.  Sometimes your number just comes up and you're THAT person, with that bad luck.   Thankfully, she went on to have two wonderful healthy boys in our little wolf pack. :)  Gaylene on "*" https://youlookfab.com/welookfab/topic/a-philosophical-question-regarding-motherhood/page/2#post-932595 Wed, 15 May 2013 01:14:58 +0000 Gaylene 932595@https://youlookfab.com/welookfab/ I have one last thought: It's not clear to me that our choices are what we tend to think they are. We don't really decide to have kids or not and then have them or not accordingly. It seems to me we make choices and then see what the universe bothers to deliver. Spot on, Rachylou! I've always been secretly amazed that I've managed to raise two smart, intelligent men who are a credit to their father and me. I made a lot of choices which turned out, in retrospect, to be good ones (my best one probably being to marry a man who is an amazing father!) The universe was gentler to me than to some of my friends whose children are fighting drug addictions or are struggling with other problems. It's a big decision to choose to have a child; I don't know if I'd ever had had the courage especially if I was older and could understand all of the implications. Having children was personally a good thing for me, but I'd definitely not recommend it wholeheartedly as a lifestyle that would work for everyone. Children are not accessories or pieces of clay to molded into whatever you want; they are unique individuals with their own issues, problems, talents, and aspirations. Watching them grow and change is utterly fascinating and humbling but, as a parent, you do hold your breath a lot hoping that everything will turn out well. The universe is a fickle companion. Nicole D on "*" https://youlookfab.com/welookfab/topic/a-philosophical-question-regarding-motherhood/page/2#post-932462 Tue, 14 May 2013 23:23:48 +0000 Nicole D 932462@https://youlookfab.com/welookfab/ I am really enjoying reading all the wisdom and insight in this thread! I always wanted kids and I was absolutely blessed to have four of them in about 6  years (starting with first one about 9 months after our wedding).  However, those years are a bit of a blur now, marked as they were by fatigue, post-partum depression and anxiety. In retrospect, I think some of those pregnancies deprived the older kids of some attention, but I was also blessed to have a lot of family support and the financial security to get outside help if I needed it, so we got through it alright.   But I still feel bewildered when people tell new mothers to "enjoy their newborns".  I tolerated mine most of the time - enjoyment was somewhat scarce.  Now, I still find parenting to be overwhelming at times.  Just seems impossible to give everyone the attention they need or want - like so many things there is a bottomless pit of demands and guilt when they are not met. But the same could be said for my career goals, fitness goals, etc.   To be a woman is to strive for perfection. amiable on "*" https://youlookfab.com/welookfab/topic/a-philosophical-question-regarding-motherhood/page/2#post-932348 Tue, 14 May 2013 21:40:46 +0000 amiable 932348@https://youlookfab.com/welookfab/ Really terrifically interesting thread!  Makes me love YLF all the more! I never really thought about whether or not I'd have kids.  And when DH and I got married, we said "well, if God gives us kids, great.  If not, great.".  We both come from large families, so figured it was likely, I think.  But that's about as far as our thought process went.  And I remember being pregnant with my first, and worried that I wouldn't love him, or that I'd regret having kids, and so on.  I had no idea how much it's possible to give of ones self.  For me, it's this learning to give, and the learning to live for something other than myself that makes parenting worth it.  Sure, I could have learned it some other way - and I know lots of people who have. But I learned it by becoming a mother, and I'm so grateful for my littles and the growth they've caused in me.   Not to mention that they're an absolute delight.  They currently range in age from 10 to 3, and I love every stage we've had so far, but do admit that I'm bracing myself a bit for five teenagers at once.... rachylou on "*" https://youlookfab.com/welookfab/topic/a-philosophical-question-regarding-motherhood/page/2#post-932278 Tue, 14 May 2013 20:06:00 +0000 rachylou 932278@https://youlookfab.com/welookfab/ You know, I don't think I was born to breed - as this psycho girl I once worked with put it. (Aside: she would go around with a big smile saying "I WAS BORN TO BREED." This isn't what made her psycho. Saying she was a baker when she wasn't, saying she could speak French when she couldn't, and telling us the FBI raided her house was what made her psycho.) I do feel a clock ticking, but it's not very motivational. I'm not against it, I just don't have that "born to breed" feeling. I wouldn't do anything to be pregnant, and I sometimes feel that maybe you have to want things that much for them to happen. I do think I was born to be a mother tho, strangely enough. Maybe, actually, I don't feel I was born to breed because I got a child without having to be pregnant or adopt or get married - and that was enough to take it all out of me. Lol. They say your brain gets rewired, even without having been pregnant, if you take on a baby/child. I have very mixed feelings about the idea that motherhood is the ultimate experience and you gain some secret knowledge, depth of soul. It is a very good way to meet your maker. Also, I have serious doubts as to whether or not a person can be considered an adult if they don't feel and take responsibility for children. I mean, my neighbor went to help a kid who got separated from his parents and fell. Well, this person going by steps over the child, and my neighbor is all, Hey this kid has fallen down! And do you know what this dude says? He says, It's okay, it's not my kid. That's a complete WTF. But on the other hand, there are a lot of people who are simply delusional about parenthood and themselves. You have the ones who pontificate about the humbling experience, but they are never humbled enough to do right by their children. Or you have the other ones who talk about multiplying being their great work, but let's be honest people, it does not take a genius to get knocked up. It is not an achievement to have a passel of kids who do all your housework. Well, it's not your achievement anyways. I have one last thought: It's not clear to me that our choices are what we tend to think they are. We don't really decide to have kids or not and then have them or not accordingly. It seems to me we make choices and then see what the universe bothers to deliver. Honestly my plans, lukewarm as they may have been, definitely involved at least one free dinner before any kids entered the picture... Janet on "*" https://youlookfab.com/welookfab/topic/a-philosophical-question-regarding-motherhood/page/2#post-932273 Tue, 14 May 2013 19:56:10 +0000 Janet 932273@https://youlookfab.com/welookfab/ I love this forum so much. So many different perspectives and stories, but so much respect. Thank you all for sharing. texstyle on "*" https://youlookfab.com/welookfab/topic/a-philosophical-question-regarding-motherhood/page/2#post-932236 Tue, 14 May 2013 19:10:22 +0000 texstyle 932236@https://youlookfab.com/welookfab/ Very interesting read so far. Okay here's mine... I knew at a very young age that I would not choose to have children. I can actually remember talking about it with my girlfriends when I was like 12 or 13. I didn't have a great childhood and I think I decided that I would figure out a way to always be in control of my life. Having kids to me meant losing control. At least that's what I witnessed from my own mom, many of my friend's moms, and then my older sister who had her first at 18. They were all so dependent on the wrong men for their entire financial existence. I moved far away and began working at a young age. I suppose I just kept on with my original life plan. I lived in a big growing city and it was gritty, fast paced and very maturing. I ended up running a small business with my DH when I was 19. I've never regretted my decisions. I thought way back when I was maybe 25 that one day if I felt the strong desire to be a mother I would adopt. But that never happened. I have been very content with the life me and DH have built.  We've had multiple businesses during our lives so far. Employing others in a small business is similar to parenting in many cases. I guess I have gotten a taste of it this way. For many years we spent 40 hours or more a week with them in pretty close quarters. There are so many people who want to be parents, and I think that is great. But I do not think it is the ultimate measure of one's purpose in life or in one's ability to feel love and compassion.  When I was younger, sometimes other people would try to make me feel "guilty" or "selfish" for making the choice not to have children. They would say mean things like "So you don't like kids?" or "Isn't it pretty selfish not to want children?" The world is quite overpopulated and many children go hungry and live in horrid conditions, so I've always held that if it were a question of selflessness, everyone would adopt instead of having their own until all the children were cared for properly. annagybe on "*" https://youlookfab.com/welookfab/topic/a-philosophical-question-regarding-motherhood/page/2#post-932224 Tue, 14 May 2013 18:53:27 +0000 annagybe 932224@https://youlookfab.com/welookfab/ Wow, a lot of great insights here. I got hit with a killer atypical migraine here this morning, so this may be a bit incoherent. I've been told that I would be a good mother. But the way my dating life is going it may not happen. I'm 40, so I would be advanced maternal age even if someone comes around rather soon. I know too many struggling single mothers to go that route. I decided long ago that if I was going to have children it would be in a stable committed relationship. Recently I visited a friend of mine who just had a baby. I held the baby but nothing really kicked in as far as baby wantsies. I'm not sure what to make of the lack of feeling.  <div>I feel like I haven't even been given the option.</div> Astrid on "*" https://youlookfab.com/welookfab/topic/a-philosophical-question-regarding-motherhood/page/2#post-932205 Tue, 14 May 2013 18:38:13 +0000 Astrid 932205@https://youlookfab.com/welookfab/ Very interesting thread, thanks for sharing your stories! I can only echo Una and say that it's awesome to get these non-judgmental perspectives on YLF. :) I definitely like kids and want to have my own someday. I have three younger siblings and always liked helping with them. I'm not sure I can say why I want to have my own children exactly, but the wish is definitely there. I always thought I wanted to start early, but because I don't have anyone I can't really see it happening in the near future. I just hope I'm going to find someone I want to spend my life with and it will all work out.