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What to wear to a conference (long post)

Tanya

Veteran

I am facing my worst fashion nightmare right now: figuring what to wear for an upcoming professional scientific conference!

Background: fashion for a female scientist is an incredibly difficult thing, especially in male dominated hard sciences. The men dress very bad in general: pleated tapered too-short khakis ( or worn bleached ratty jeans) over white socks, oversized t-shirt with band/tv show/animal photo or oversized button-down shirt if they are trying to dress up for events such as talks/conferences. As a female you are constantly being judged harsher than men are, and looking well or, God-forbid, fashion-forward is actually pretty bad for your carrier. You are assumed to be either a secretary or very incompetent in what you do. If you dress badly like a typical nerd, you might be as smart as a typical nerd, but if you pay attention to your appearance there's obviously not any room in your head for thoughts about anything else. So I constantly struggle with this: not looking too out-there and yet still looking nice. I have to admit that recently I just gave upon fitting in my lab - I'm currently in grad school and by now everybody knows me anyway- and just wore whatever I pleased. But I do know that I will have to tone it down a LOT once I graduate and get a real job.

The conference: it's a five day local affair ( no need to pack) in a field slightly different from mine which I am seriously consider switching to once I'm done. Hence I won't be giving any presentations, I'm mainly going to meet people and check out the trends in the field. I will be in contact with a lot of prospective employers, so I need to be neat and presentable, yet not a slightest bit trendy, feminine or standing out. The weather is hot and humid, but the venue will be heavily AC-ed. There will be a nice dinner at the end in a fancy hotel. It will be strongly male-dominated and I can guess that most of them will be wearing khakis and button-downs.

The clothes: So far I figured out that I should stick to long pants (no skirts, dresses, walk shorts), neutral shoes and bags ( no color, metallics, prints or patent) and my simple silvertone watch as the only accessory. My goal is to look polished enough for meeting future bosses yet as much as any other scientist as possible. I guess this leaves me with a formula of khakis/simple neutral pants plus button-down or maybe wrap shirt or nicer knitted top. It looks like I answered my own question And maybe a slightly dressier version for the dinner.

I'd still appreciate you input very much and sorry for the long rant. This is such a sore spot for me... *huge sigh*. Thanks!

Dressing

49 replies

Latest reply was from Angie

Lannie

I see you sorted your own question out anyway, but I was going to suggest the same thing: neutral long pants, a simple top and basic shoes (I don't know if you plan on flats or not, but that's what I'd think of). It didn't really occur to me that women had to worry about how they were dressing because of the field they're in, but then again all of my profs in the sciences, humanities, and social sciences dressed pretty terribly (but I sure did take them seriously). My only stylish prof was a gay English instructor who was very put together but he intimidated me simply because he was so brilliant. Anyhow, on to an anecdote that may help you: while I was volunteering at a high school, a young lady who was in training to be a teacher was guest-teaching and I had the chance to observe her. Every day she wore tailored long pants and simple sweaters, all in neutral colours. She always looked put-together, but she commanded respect with the combination of her look AND her authoritative tone- and she was only in teacher's college! Maybe you can strike this same balance yourself. I understand it must be difficult to be criticized just because you look nice. It's cliche to say they're just jealous, but I reckon that's not far off the mark- what's more intimidating than someone who is smart AND gorgeous?

Kyle

Veteran

I came up through Aerospace, also a male-dominated field full of nerdy engineers (although I work the marketing/creative side). I suggest that you stay appropriate for your industry...professional, polished, etc., but please don't lose who you are. It's OK to stand out and to be feminine in an appropriate way. It distinguishes you from the crowd and makes a statement about your confidence and sense of self -- these are valuable attributes that just enhance your technical knowledge. Shame on all of these guys who settle for tacky khakis and ridiculous logo shirts they got for free from some vendor (the girls in my office call it the "fat boy uniform.") You CAN be attractive, stylish and smart, and it's a killer combo. So let them underestimate you because you look great and have interpersonal skills, too. The next thing they know, you'll be their boss (when this happens, please establish a new dress code first thing!

Antje

Veteran

Gosh, Tanya, that does sound stressful. What a shame that you have to hide your super fashionable self for this occasion! But I totally get it. I think you're right on with the neutral slacks. You might feel better in a wrap top than a button down, though (after all, you do want to feel good and self-confident, and that is usually harder to achieve when you feel too dressed up. The wrap top is your signature Tanya style, and you have shown several in your photos that I think would be appropriate; not too flashy and not too feminine, just polished and put together.)
Have you considered a short-sleeved jacket over a sleeveless top? I'd consider that as well. Something like the jackets we recommended on the recent thread re: lobbying in DC might work.
I'm off to a conference this week as well and just started thinking about what to wear. The last one I went to ran the whole gamut from suits to jeans and logo t-shirt for the men, and suits to jeans to fashion looks for women. For me there isn't as much at stake as for you, since I'm not in the job market, and I work in high tech where there isn't such a strong bias against women as in science. Still, I want to look professional and I don't want to "stick out" too much. But at least I'll get away with more of a smart casual and fashion look.
Good luck to you - I know you'll pull it off superbly.

marianne

Tanya, I can sympathize because my line of work is male-dominated with a similar dress style. So I know very well what you mean -you're supposed to look like you're not putting any thought into your appearance. If it seems that you've put a tiny bit of effort, it speaks against you. Anyway, I think your idea of neutral pants + button down shirt is great considering the weather. I think a neutral skirt would work too. A cardi might be useful since it's ACed. And if you have glasses, wear them

Antje

Veteran

Great point about the cardi. I remember being cold all day at my last conference (in Miami Beach! What a sin to be cold there!) due to excessive air-conditioning.

Ana

(website)

Veteran

This thread is very interesting. I'm not as worried about dressing up as you are (but I'm not in as elite/cut throat program by any means). I have to admit, though, that I've thought about this too, lately. I already tend to be much dressier than most students, AND I'm going into a male dominated field (the only 2 other girls who were transferring into math wanted to teach high school and weren't even sure they wanted to do math). UT has one of the top graduate mathematics programs in the country, and I'd really like to get my Master's there, so I want to make a good impression. I don't really care what the other students think, but I do care what my professors think, and whether they'll take me seriously or not if one day I decide to wear a dress to school. Patience has been a good roll model/inspiration for me because she works in an engineering firm here and always looks great. I know academics is a little different than the workplace, too, because you'll get to demonstrate everyday what you're capable of and not just at intermittent meetings with your advisers.

Just an observation--Isn't is strange/silly that you'd be taken more seriously in old jeans and a polo shirt than looking ultra sharp and put together?

I loved Lannie's comment about being smart and gorgeous is intimidating. That's EXACTLY what it is--your labmates are probably really intimidated by you. While they've probably spent every spare moment working towards being in the same place you are (and subsequently just accepted that they are "nerds" and supposed to look frumpy) you are obviously every bit as smart as they are AND you've managed to look good doing it. It's too bad they act catty instead of being inspired. I also love her story about the student teacher. Confidence is your best accessory and goes with everything.

I think what you have chosen sounds great. I'd add a jacket (short sleeved sounds nice). Are you sure you can't get away with red shoes if your whole outfit is neutral? You gotta stay a little sassy, right?

Tanya

Veteran

Thank you so much for the support ladies! This is such a touchy topic for me.

Great idea of the cardigan, I'll bring one with. And I'll wear my glasses - I need them at the conference anyway. I'll scoop out what the most of the people are wearing the first two days and maybe later be brave to try a short-sleeve jacket over sleeveless top.

Unfortunately things really are the way I describe them. If it's obvious that your outfit is really nice people are going to assume that you are not serious about your science and therefore not even worth talking too, so nobody will even find out if you are smart or not. It's kind of an equivalent of a lawyer in a high-profile murder case showing up in the court with a super fitted D&G suit and leopard stilletos - all of her credibility goes through the window! And even on a daily basis even if your colleagues/boss know you and how smart you are or not, looking to dressed up is still not good - it shows them you are not able to get 'down and dirty' with your work, and that you have spent some time putting your look together and /or shopping, time that's much better spent working. If you do not live and breath science, then you are not one of them

shiny

Veteran

I dunno, Tanya, I fear you are playing into your own stereotype, and that concerns me. Do you REALLY think that any women in your field who dresses as nice as you do isn't as serious about her science? Surely you, of all people, know that isn't necessarily true.

Of course, the most important thing when meeting prospective employers is to be comfortable and feel confident. If dressing down/toning it down is going to make you feel more confident, than by all means, do so.

Did I relate this story yet or not....

As you know, I work virtually. I had occasion recently to meet my new boss in real life. My parents were visiting at the time, and I asked my mom and dad which shoes I should wear for this meeting: basic black pumps, or giraffe pumps. (The outfit was simple khaki pants with a black sleeveless top and black cardi - it's in my flickr album). My parents said the giraffe pumps were too trendy and to go with the black pumps, which were safer.

I show up to meet my boss... and she is wearing Manolo's. She is dressed head to toe in expensive designer suit she bought on her latest trip to Paris, and a $30,000 watch. She is an engineer - yes, a science nerd. A very successful one at that, just got promoted to VP. She never wears anything but Manolo's and gets them resoled once a month. She would have LOVED my giraffe pumps!!

I will also add that men do not really notice what you wear. Unless it is too low-cut or revealing, which we know you don't wear anyway. Otherwise, they really just don't notice.

Stick with your plan, but throw in some colored ballet flats and a few more fashionable items in case after your first day you change your mind and decide you want to present your true self: Brainy *and* beautiful!

Angie

(website)

Fashion Stylist

Tanya, this is possibly the most interesting thread so far. I WISH I could tear around in your wardrobe right now and help you decide what to wear for this important conference. Enter a new capsule in your wardrobe.

Background: I hear you and I hear what everyone else has said. I have experience in this matter. I live in Seattle ( home of the richest man and biggest software company in the world). I have a fair amount of executive men and women clientele from this company and their descriptions and concerns are much like the environment you have described.

Solution: play up the sophistication. Instead of being a trendy girl who has fun with fashion every day, stick to impeccable, tailored modern-classic dressing. Choose clean cut pieces and omit whimsical detailing. But stay current. This is THE edge. No one can fault you in this way. It’s flop proof and safe.

When you choose the items to wear, think SOPHISTICATION with every piece. Nothing loud or too playful. But stylish all the way.

Tanya

Veteran

Thank you very much for your opinion Shiny, I truly value it. I would personally NEVER think of any women in my field ( or any other one) not be serious about her work if she looked/dressed nice. In fact, I'd be very happy/relieved to meet as many as possible of such women, since that would make it much easier for me too.

There is one (one!) female professor in my whole university that wears Chanel suits and Manolo shoes. However she has already accomplished everything that's possible in her scientific carrier ( other than Nobel's prize) and is very confident and has reached a stage where she couldn't care less. She's her own boss. But she's also the most talked about/criticized in the whole community, and there are plenty of other women that are at least equally successful if not more, but she's the one everybody loves to hate.

Unfortunately I am nowhere close to that stage in my carrier. The expectations right now are that you work really hard 12+ hour days 7 days a week, produce great results and have no life aside from work. If there are no great results to be had ( which happens often in science, but still causes a huge magnifying glass to be placed over you), which is what is happening to me right now and why I am still not close to graduating after more than 6 years, than you are completely dissected. I have heard a lot of bad comments said directly to my face : 'you always try so hard with your look (... maybe you should do the same with your work -the second was implied)', ' your clothes always scream look at my body' , 'I thought grad students were not supposed to have time to shop since they should be spending all of their time on their work' and so on and on, which have left me really hurt, sad and confused. I have tried to shrug them off, but am painfully aware of the whole culture. It is a bit different if you are a boss/manger of the scientific background as opposed to being the one that has to go the lab, come up with all the cool ideas and do all the work.

Anyway, this is turning into quite a soul-barring thread for me so I'll stop now.

Angie

(website)

Fashion Stylist

Oh Tanya. I’m so sorry. I understand how this in an antitheses in your life. One passion fighting up against the other. My opinion still holds (did you see it?)

Okay. We are going to help you!!! New thread – post possible conference outfits. Let’s go. You are not alone in this.

Tanya

Veteran

Thanks for chiming in Angie! You must have been writing your post while I was my last one. I hear your and I shall take your advice, well as much as I can with my current wardrobe anyway. I wish a I had a closet full of simple Theory pieces, it sounds like that would be what you are describing. That's something for me to invest into for the future .

I'll try to take some photos of some possible outfits later in he week when I find some time and post them here for your opinions so that I can feel a bit more at ease. The conference starts this Sunday.

Tanya

Veteran

Thank so much once again Angie ( we must have been writing at the same time again). You have brought tears to my eyes, it's so nice to be understood.

I shall do exactly as you have suggested later, but I have to go now.

Thanks once again, I can not describe enough in words how much this means to me.

Angie

(website)

Fashion Stylist

Now we're talking. Quite right - "the Theory Look". But we can start making that happen with what’s in your closet. Promise.

Not to worry if you don’t have time to post outfits before the conference. Just know that if you need support and encouragement, we are here.

shiny

Veteran

Tanya, I ran this by my DH, who works for a lab. Here's his two cents:

"probably she would not be taken seriously at the grad student/postdoc level because she would not seem to be doing real benchwork (that would be chemistry or biology, I'll give her an exception for mathematics or computer science).

-- I take it that he thinks it's more about wearing nice clothing around chemicals and stuff that might get on your clothes; less about having too much time to shop!!

"Once she becomes faculty, however, she can and should dress like you do because other people would do her grunt work and she needs to do professional things like presentations and fund raising."

-- I think this is an important point to note. You do NOT need to tone it down once you graduate, not if you plan on giving presentations and doing fund raising.

I then asked him - but what about for a conference?

"She should dress nicer---no one at a conference will assume she wears business clothes in the lab. The conferences have a sizable casual element, too, however, so she has to look 'ready to have fun' unless it's in some place completely dreary at an awful time of the year."

I re-read your first post - you mentioned a dinner at a fancy hotel. I think it's safe to dress nice for this dinner. I've been to such dinners with my DH, and the women do dress up. I do notice a lot of the younger women dress too sexy and inappropriately, but I'm sure you won't make that mistake!

I just want to add that I can and do commiserate with you. Throughout my career, I always dressed up - nicer than everyone else - even when business casual became the rule. I dressed up because I am so short and I have a baby face; I felt if I dressed like my peers, I would not be taken seriously because I looked so young. I also used to get catty comments from my peers. But I ignored them because that's not who I was dressing for. I was dressing for my bosses. And it worked. For this conference, I think you cannot make a mistake if you dress like your boss (or potential boss) would.

And graduate school just plain sucks. If it wasn't your clothes, I have no doubt, they'd just find another way to make you feel insecure. The competition is just plain cutthroat.

Ana

(website)

Veteran

Tanya, Brendan said you should tell the people who insult you to your face that, "Just because I don't look like a tramp (homeless person) that got dragged backwards through a hedge doesn't mean I'm not clever." (His words, not mine). He's much better with comebacks than I am.

Angie and Shiny give great advice, and I agree a polished, sophisticated look is always classic and appropriate. I really hate to be vulgar (I'm usually not), but f-them. It makes me so angry that you have to go through this. >:(

Angie

(website)

Fashion Stylist

(I think Brendan and I would get along). And Ana, I love your passionate caring spunk. Your uber high style quotient just increased.

Tanya has been SO immensely helpful and kind to others on this forum. She really needs our help. Heads together everyone. Our goal is to create a so called “new look” for Tanya that gives her the confidence to override the cut throat environment she finds herself in. But we will NOT change who she is because we adore this Tanya. We’ll simply make her look even more irresistible. Enter power-look.

Julie

Tanya - you are absolutely gorgeous with wonderful clothes. I think everyone else is just uber jealous of you. That being said, it doesn't solve the question of what to wear to the conference. I actually was looking back at some of the pictures you posted and the outfit you wore on 5/7 I think is gorgeous. It is a purplish wrap top with grey pants. I think you were meeting with professors to talk about your research (yes, I've been lurking for a while). In my opinion that would be a great outfit. It is nice and sophisticated, but not over the top.

Patience

Veteran

Tanya, I want to add my support to you too. I was in graduate school for over four years in math and now work for an engineering firm. Fortunately, the people I've always been around, while often surprised by my dressing up have always been very nice. While I don't think you want to wear anything too out there, I think you need to play up being a stylish woman as an *advantage.* Remember that the very fact that there are few women in your field will give you openings. Sure there may be some people who think you have less in your head, but the truth is that if you are nice, dress well and look good, you will get noticed and people (well the nice ones) will like you. Whether they admit it or not, all of those sloppy old scientists will love getting attention from a sharp looking (and talking) woman. At the least, they will respect you. Your work will be its own proof as to what's in your head. Scientific work is very objective as to whether what you're doing is good or bad. So if your work is good, you can reinterpret the comment

'I thought grad students were not supposed to have time to shop since they should be spending all of their time on their work'

as a twisted compliment that you can do good work and look good (wow!). I'm really sorry about the mean comments. It is cutthroat at the level you are at and that is one of the reasons I left graduate school myself.

I hope you don't misinterpret my words to mean that I think you will get what you want through looks and not brains. I'm just saying you've got the brains, so why not use everything else you've got as well if that makes you happy. You will be intimidating to some but you're so nice that you can overcome that too.

Ana

(website)

Veteran

That's a good outfit suggestion from Julie and I love the comments from Patience.

I'm thinking it would also be helpful (not before the conference, probably) to sometime post photos of individual pieces you have that you think would be appropriate and you would feel comfortable wearing in this environment. Then, we could help you mix and match them to make new outfits, and make suggestions about shoes and accessories (if you wanted) a la Polyvore style. This way, we could start with what you already have that will work, and it might help you to figure out what to spend your money on this fall (when your shopping ban is over).

judy

Veteran

What an interesting thread...I don't have any helpful experience to add at the moment, but I do want to add my voice of support here, Tanya...to hold your head high and feel fab as ever there...and appropriately dressed in your field...so you'll feel like you AND that you fit in. What an amazing wealth of help has come forth!

Angie

(website)

Fashion Stylist

You took the plan right out of my head, Ana. (ENFJ's think alike)

This was just the injection this thread needed. Thank you Patience. Who better to speak from the heart and from experience than you. I like where this is going.

shiny

Veteran

I'll add to Patience's comments by saying that your superiors may see looking put-together instead of disheveled as a sign that you CAN handle the intense pressure of grad school - without crumbling. It means you have inner resources, resilience and strength, and can go the mile - while still looking polished and fresh!!

Becky

Veteran

Oh, Tanya. I'm so sorry for this stressful situation in which you find yourself. I echo everyone else's advice: Be yourself and live above the catty, backbiting ways of those who are jealous of your style!

Tanya

Veteran

First I'd like to say how deeply touched I am by fir all of your support. I really can not find the right words right now to express how I feel. OK,here's comes a long string of replies:

Shiny, very sweet of you to run this by your DH. I did run it by my BF, but he is subjective since he is my BF. I do work at the bench tough, which requires the most casual clothes While I am aware of the risk of ruining clothes, I do wear a lab coat over them, refuse to look like I about to garden on the field and if something gets ruined, oh well. I did ruin quite a few pants with bleach, but that's life. But his opinion exactly shows the typical norms in this setting. As for later, I don't know what I'll do yet, but the last thing on Earth would be to go on the road of tenured professorship, which would require all the presentations and stuff he's describing. Strangely, I'd like to do research but in some setting where I do not have to be the leading person ( we call this PI). Maybe a research job in industry, we'll see. For the conference, I agree with him exactly. And thanks again for the commiseration.

Ana, I like the way Brendan thinks. I am awful with comebacks myself, and even if I thought of something snappy I would never dare to say it ( I am your typical dreaded ISFJ personality).

Angie, thanks for the kind thoughts/invitation to others. I will start another thread on possible outfits with some of the pieces I already have some evening this week.

Julie, I agree with you, some twist on that outfit on 5/7 is pretty much what I have in mind. And that one was for a presentation in front of my department.

Patience, thanks for the support as well. Of course I am not misinterpreting your words. Unfortunately, that statement about too much time to shop was told to me by my boss and was meant to criticize me about finding time to do anything else another than work - I should not do anything than work in my awake hours in his opinion.

Judy, Shiny and Becky thanks again. Shiny unfortunately my boss does not see it as a good thing -quite the opposite.

Anyway, to sum this all up, thank you all very much for all of your support. I refuse to change anything about how I dress on my daily basis - by now it wouldn't change anybody's opinion about me here anyway and it's currently the only type of outlet - like a mini hobby if that does not sound pathetic -that I have. I am used to living with all the negative comments anyway. For a future job I will adapt to whatever the culture there is. And for the conference I want to take the advice of Angie and Shiny's DH : a bit dressed up from typical scientist attire but nothing fussy, whimsical or trendy. As I've said above, I'll start a new thread at some point about actual possible outfits.

Thank toy all once again, you are so wonderful!

Ola

We shall be your personal cheering squad Tanya!

I think wearing conservative colours may do the trick, you shouldn't need to give up your wrap tops and other items you like. I think choosing items that aren't brightly coloured may prevent you from getting that negative attention and then your personality and skill can shine through and impress the pants off everyone. Well, not literally.

Antje

Veteran

Tanya, I looked back through some of your albums and see some pieces that seem less trendy and colorful, a bit more "bland" (though that's hardly the case with anything in your wardrobe! I just couldn't find a better word) and definitely polished. E.g. would these work (sorry, no combinations, just individual pieces):

Bottoms:
7/2: Theory Max C striped caramel/cream pants. These look like a great basis to start from.

Tops:
6/20: Express white ruched shirt
6/16: Ny&Co print cummerbund top

Jackets:
Week of 4/14 (Monday): H&M cream cord jacket

Tanya

Veteran

Thanks Antje! I am off to look at my pieces now. The pants and shirt you mentioned could definitely work. and I have that printed top in cream too - even more bland! The cord jacket is going to be too hot for 90 degrees though.

Angie

(website)

Fashion Stylist

How about the word “understated” instead of bland?

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