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thoughts on Angie's interview with Kendall Farr

Anonymous

That was a great post today Angie. You have another talent showing now, that of interviewer. You asked meaningful questions and got some good insightful answers.
I was very glad to hear the part of the interview on nudging (hoping, pleading) clothing manufacturers to understand that we need to cover up more skin to look better as we age. I am going to be 55 this summer, and of all places to get wrinkles, I never thought it would be my arms. Who would have thought that would happen. Now I find myself wanting more coverage in a place as innocuous as the arms. The people who style women's clothing seem to think that if a hemline is modest and the cleavedge is covered there has to be skin showing somewhere to give a dress style. That means if I find a dress covering the first two, the arms will be showcased. Where should I be shopping? I would love to find clothing that can be alluring and stylish without relying on showing skin. The dress below is not an option for me.
http://shop.nordstrom.com/S/30.....4&P=4
P.S. I loved in your interview that it was pointed out that Hollywood is showing older women trying to be in the same style catagory as 20 yr olds. It is just time to stop this. I realize it takes time to change, but it sure is taking along time.
I think I have gone into full on rant now. Sorry.

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59 replies

Latest reply was from Mac

rute

Veteran

I loved the interview!
I think things are already changing! Many designers are already using older models because they are realizing that women with 40, 50 have more purchasing power than teenagers and they go for the timeless quality pieces.
Still, changes are slow, most clothes are designed for size 0 girls and it's up to us to select the best pieces for our body!

Laura

(website)

Veteran

San, I completely agree with you.

One of the best tips from Kendall's book was about sleeve length. She said that she buys long-sleeved tops and has them altered to the exact length she likes -- whether that's elbow-length or 3/4 length. How smart! Why didn't I think of that??

Remember too that you can buy long-sleeved Sweet Pea tops and cut the sleeves, as per Angie's tip.

Debora

Veteran

Thanks San, for bringing this up. Being the same age, I'm also interested in these same issues. I don't have the innate fashion sense that so many of the readers on this forum have and I find myself really at a loss trying to navigate what's out there and finding a style that suits my age but does not look too matronly or young. I'm finding this to be more the case now that I'm in my 50's than when I was in my 40's.

I'm finding out that even though my dress size hasn't changed, my body has. Things fit me differently now and I can't wear low-rise jeans, short skirts, etc. I feel better in more tailored looks with less frills and fussy details.

One of my biggest pet peeves is how clothes for older women are marketed. I've lost count of the times I've seen fashions for women over 50 shown on 20 year old models. Like it or not, my body is not the same as it was when I was in my 20's.

I'm definitely going to start with Kendall's book but I'd also like suggestions on where to shop. I sure do need the help!

chewyspaghetti

Veteran

Yeah it was a great interview. I have put that book on my wish list, and I will be finding it in my Christmas Stocking this year (I do my own Christmas shopping LOL)

Ele

(website)

I also found Angie's interview really interesting, though of course Kendall's book isn't aimed at me (25). I'm interested in fashion for people all of all ages, particularly as one of my secret(ish) life dreams is to start a fashion line for women 65+.

All my friends from fashion school think I'm crazy for this, but with an aging population living longer than ever before, and the fashion industry's ongoing obsession with youth, I personally think it's a great idea. Both my grandmothers find it next to impossible to find stylish, warm (because at 96, my Granny really feels the cold now!) and practical clothes that take into account their shapes today. I sometimes really wonder about whether these lines aimed at women 40, 50, or 60+ are using 20-year-old fit models.

(I love the sleeve tip, too. I am petite with proportionally short arms, but a long waist. Petite tops don't work for my torso, but regular sleeves swallow my hands. Great idea.)

tarzy

Veteran

Good post, San. The dress you linked to is sooo not me, either!

The whole "sleeve" issue is such a problem. I'm sure it's because it's cheaper to throw on a little cap or flutter sleeve than to make a proper sleeve. So many times I find a top I love, and then end up wearing it only under a jacket because of the sleeves. However, it's getting to be very warm weather now, and jackets are not always an option.

Anonymous

Ele how great that you are thinking of a line of fashion for 65+. I hope to see it in the next 10 years when I will be 65. So many women give up on wearing bras because the more you need one the less comfortable they are. I think the same goes for other garments, things feel binding and restricting.

Deborah, I feel the same trying to navigate what is out there for suitable clothing. It is no longer a matter of what I like, now it is quite a bit a matter of "what will not look silly on me".

tarzy

Veteran

I think I'm finally at the point where I have to stop shopping at GAP. It saddens me, because the prices can be really good, but I just feel everything is too cutesy on me now. For instance, I love the colors of the sweaters I just bought at ON, but I do worry that the styles are a bit young for me, not to mention the sizes are cut for younger bodies. I think it's time for me to start buying much less, but spending more on better fabrics.

I know we've talked about this before - but I'm not ready to disappear into a world of only J.Jill and Chicos!

carissa

(website)

Did anybody see the Wall Street Journal style article a few weeks back? The author talked about the lack of on-line sites for middle age (defined by the fashion industry as 25-45 years old) women?

Kendall Farr is anti showing arms if they are not toned, regardless of age. I am 36 and no longer like to show my arms, probably for the last 4 years or so.

Tara please don't disappear into a world of only J. Crew and Chicos. It takes more creativity and effort to get away from the big box stores.

shiny

Veteran

While I trust Farr and really want to read her book, I think it's total hogwash that the only people who can show their arms are those that have toned arms. It reminds me of those days when pregnant women had to go into "confinement" and away from public eyes. This is ridiculous.

I have a 75+ neighbor who is constantly outside gardening and she is *always* in sleeveless dresses. Yes her arms are less than fab at this age but I simply don't NOTICE her arms unless I purposely think to notice them. She is a beautiful woman and I just see her gorgeous smile as she is working on her passion (her garden, which is mostly purple, as is her house ... she loves purple!). I think if she was out there in long sleeves or even half-sleeves I would notice that... and think to myself "how silly, in this heat."

Someone else here recently posted a pic with a beautiful dress and she was concerned about her arms (sorry don't remember who). I didn't notice her arms when I opened the pic - I had to deliberately look at them since that was her concern. I think she just looked lovely. With a cap sleeve I may have noticed, but something about sleeveless directs the attention up to the face.

I gain weight first in my upper arms and my arms can get pretty heavy. But you won't see me giving up my sleeveless tops anytime soon, especially in hot weather. Cap sleeves? Yeah, I would probably give that up at some point. Cap sleeves = evil but sleeveless = not necessarily so.

Editing because I thought of another point to make (yes I'm on a rant!!!)

What about necks??? The neck tends to be the first area we (or at least, many of us, including me) age. Are all women of a certain age supposed to wear only turtlenecks???? I don't think so!!! I don't know why arms would be any different - unless you are still trying to pretend to be in your 20s!! We're not in our 20s so yes we have aging skin and untoned and/or sagging parts ... by all means be prudent and cover up for modesty - but not simply because you don't like your aging skin. Especially if it's hot as heck and sleeveless makes sense and a turtleneck does not!

Anonymous

Great thread, San. I'm with you. My arms are toned but wrinkled anyway...more than wrinkled, the skin sort of drapes at times. Between age and heredity there's not much to be done but cover them. Sweet Pea tops are the best solution I've found.
Clarissa, I read that WSJ article and found it interesting. The author pointed out that older women have the money to spend and will for clothing they like. Didn't she say the average order was $400?
I bought my copy of Kendall Farr's new book today! Can't wait to read it.

Christie

Ele, I think you have a great idea. Both of my grandmothers were stylish women, and just because one gets older and needs clothing easier to dress (i.e. not lots of little buttons) doesn't mean one wants to be unstylish!

Angie

(website)

Fashion Stylist

Your concerns are legitimate, San. The industry needs to offer short and elbow sleeved items alongside sleeveless ones if that is your preference. A good fashion season is always one with lots of choice.

I’m also far less concerned about woman going sleeveless with un-toned arms. I actually encourage sleeveless items most of the time. When it’s hot it’s hot! I’m also far less concerned about wrinkled necks. If you need a V-neckline to elongate your look, you should wear one at any age. On the other hand, I do think capped sleeves are unflattering on most women and short shorts and micro minis have very real age boundaries.

Joy and San, I have clients in their early and late 60’s who won’t show their arms anymore (I might also add that these clients are my most stylish). They are all very slim, but feel wrinkled and saggy – and no amount of exercise will rectify that situation. They won’t even wear short sleeves! Elbow length is as short as they go. It has been VERY hard to find items to wear on their own without layering over a cardigan or jacket. Hopefully things will change next season.

cciele

Veteran

I don't think women should hide every sign of aging -- otherwise, we'd be wearing burkas! I think, done tastefully, it works (like Shiny's neighbor).

Remember a few years ago, Gymboree and Gap opened stores targeted to the 35+ market? (Janeville, Forth & Towne). I never visited one of these stores, but I am wondering why they tanked, since there seems to be a need for "not too young, not too old" clothing.

judy

Veteran

I understand your feeling fed up, San. I so agree with turning to sources other than Hollywood for our inspiration. Women aren't allowed to age there...or if they do, they aren't sexy any more. And perhaps zeroing in on brands that make clothes that we like.

When I think of your style, I think of something like Theory. A nice crisp white woven is a good warm weather alternative to a sleeveless knit...and then we don't freeze when we go into air conditioning!

I'll be 55 this year too and I'm also noticing signs of aging I did not expect! My choices in what I want to wear are getting simpler (less accessories, cleaner lines, better fit) and I really don't need that many clothes for my lifestyle, so I can spend more money on better quality things. I don't want to be young again, and I am embracing the fashion challenge of fitting the body I have. But like you I do have days where it gets to me.

Speaking of turning away from Hollywood, here's a link I happened upon recently. Her fearlessness inspired me. I think it demonstrates how few role models we have in our youth obsessed culture of someone so aged, yet so vital and alive. Mostly we put women who look like this out to pasture or they do it to themselves. Here's to not hiding! Though we may not think of her as a "fashion icon", (though to me she is), she embodies the quote: "Know yourself, and dress accordingly".

http://blog.photoshelter.com/2.....keefe.html

Anonymous

Oh she's gorgeous. Thankyou for posting Judy. I love Georgia O'Keefe and I hope the exhibit comes to the Pacific Northwest.
We went out with old friends last weekend and I did show my arms in a sleeveless Sweetpea top. I forgot during the evening about being embarrassed of the sagging, but looking in the mirror unfortunately I was reminded.
It doesn't get super hot here where we live so covering the arms isn't really uncomfortable. If I lived in a very hot climate I would just have to dress for that weather. I see a lot of women down in San Diego when I go there to visit, who have not so attractive arms but dress for the warm weather and it does not bother me in the least. It bothers me on myself though.

Debora

Veteran

I think we need to have a film called "Our Changing Bodies" like we all saw when we were in 5th grade! I thought I knew what to expect, but every little bit of aging always seems to take me by surprise.

Anonymous

I hear you Deborah.
When I was about 45 I put on my usual pair of jeans and a tucked in top with a vest over and looked at the back of myself in the mirror. I thought holly cow where did my figure go and when did it get replaced with this one.

Debora

Veteran

Exactly! It not so much that I'm not accepting the changes, it's more that they are just so darn unexpected. Those *holy cow* realizations!

Hang in there, San. You're beautiful!

Anonymous

Yes, same to you!

Anonymous

I haven't quite got to the place where I absolutely won't show my upper arms because it can get so hot here. If you still have good shoulders, sleeveless sounds like a good way to go and maybe the shoulders will detract from the arms.
I'm 62 and the arm thing is recent. Before that it was a once perky rear fallen flat. Before that came the wildly long stiff grey eyebrow hairs.
Another aging moment came last week when it seems suddenly I have big long black hairs growing out of the very bottom inside part of my nose. I can trim them, but cutting them doesn't solve the problem because these hairs are so low in the nose that they are still visible. This area seems far to tender to pluck. Does anyone have a solution to this?

Chris

I am chuckling at our collective realization of ourselves aging. You are a powerful group of women and I know you'll never forget it.

I think there is a book - Our Bodies Growing Older?? Or did I dream that.
Also reminds me of that poem - When I am an old woman I will wear purple.

You need to do what is right for you - be brave in whatever you choose to wear and be confident. If that means following Kendall's no flabby arm rule then so be it. If you are hot (and I hear it only gets hotter for some of us in middle age) then show those arms in a sleeveless top or take the jacket off.
The trick seems to be finding the right balance - a cap sleeve can be worse than no sleeve? I think I prefer the cleaner line of the arm.

Georgia O'Keefe ROCKED her style. The denim jacket over a man's white shirt with a huge turquoise belt. It was appropriated later by Ralph Lauren but she did it first and best.

BTW - it was so lame of Gap to close the Forth and Towne chain. They seemed to only put a limited, half-hearted effort into it in the first place.

tarzy

Veteran

The sleeve thing is just about killing me this year. ENOUGH WITH THE FLUTTER SLEEVES!

Has anyone else experienced a bust increase? I've always been big, but suddenly I feel like my Great-Aunt Minnie, who had what they used to call "an ample bosom." Is it a hormonal thing? I don't need to attract men anymore (I'm 51 and happily married), so I don't understand why nature would do that! I expected my waist to expand, but not my bust! Maybe I just need to lose 10 pounds?

Dani

Veteran

LOL!!! You guys crack me up! I've almost fallen out of my chair reading this thread! I completely appreciate the honesty and candidness of the thoughts here and know that it is not easy to dress your body as it becomes more mature. I don't mean to make light of the seriousness of the core issues but I love how everyone's personality shines through in each post! It's great that this forum is so supportive and open! LOVE it!

Debbie

I have been reading Kendall Farr's book and to tell you the truth Angie's advice to me is much easier to understand and follow.

Last night I was reading the part about top lengths and got REALLY confused. Maybe I will start a new thread so we can decipher it together.

I feel like Angie's book (is there one coming Angie?) will be MUCH easier to understand and follow.

I skimmed through the accessories section and do like it.

Debbie

Shiny

Thanks for putting in words what I knew in my heart-- but did not know how to voice!

Loved the story about your gardening neighbor!

Anonymous

Tara, I experienced that about 10 yrs ago and it was not permanent, so don't worry. I do believe it is hormonal.

chewyspaghetti

Veteran

Has anyone seen the new issue of Glamour Magazine with Sandra Bullock on the cover? Don't get me wrong, she looks great, but I think it is just another case of Hollywood trying to dress a 45 year old woman as a teenager. Why can't we see mature women dressed maturely? The outfits they put her in would have been more appropriate for Miley Cyrus.

bella

(website)

Veteran

CS- I just got my Glamour magazine in the mail and I thought the exact same thing. On the other hand, Miley Cyrus was on the cover, I think, last month and her clothes would probably be more appropriate for Sandra Bullock!:)

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