Ornella - so sorry for DS's situation. You need to trust your mommy sense. There is a world of difference between playground skirmishes and true bullying. I am all for letting kids work out their own issues but true bullying is a completely different situation. From your description of A and the gang etc it sounds like you are deailing with the latter. I am not sure where you live but our school has a no tolerance anti-bullying campaign in full swing. My son was slapped and aggressively threatened by a girl in middle school. He came home insisting he needed to sleep with a baseball bat because she would come to the house to kill him. I immediately reported this to the guidance counselor. In NJ there are strict protocols, my child was interviewed, the other child was interviewed by guidance and the VP, other children present interviewed - once my son's story was confirmed the parents were called and brought in with the child. My son was then called down separately and told what was being done, assured that he was safe and also asked to help determine a course of action. I was proud when he told the VP he did not want the girl punished just made aware of how hurtful the behavior is and to make sure it did not happen again to any child. Does your school have a written protocol on bullying? Do you have a guidance dept? I find them the most helpful and you could meet with guidance and the teacher too. Although I do not believe in smother love or being a helicopter parent, I have a zero tolerance for bullying. Last year an 8th grader took his life over bullying. No child should be subjected to it and no one should feel the act of true harrassment and bullying is OK, ever. I think you need to listen to your mommy instincts. It's the school's job to see to the safety of the students - a bully makes the school unsafe, not just for your child but for every child. It's always difficult to "make waves." As women we spend most of our time "oiling those troubled waters." But persuing this sends a message to your child - that you trust the system - the teachers/staff are there to help him, you reinforce that the chain of command works, you exemplify that it's important to stick up for yourself and others if people are being hurtful, and that your son is valuable & honest and his concerns and discomfort are important. Anyway, that's my take for what it's worth. Huge hugs to you. I know it's so stressful right now but you will both get through it and hopefully to a much better place. Best of luck and hoping that you get the support and assistance you need to resolve the situation in a favorable way soon!!

Sorry about your situation . I think that you are handling it well.
Definitely go and talk to the teacher and take it further if you get no results. My son was bullied horribly in in elementary school and middle school. I deeply regret not being more proactive, I did go and talk to the teacher and the head teacher many times but not a whole lot was done. I ended up pulling him out and sending him to a different school. To this day my son ( who is now 25 ) sometimes tells me about incidents that happened that I didn't know about! He says that he is still trying to forget about those terrible years.

Ornella, I empathize with your situation! My daughter is starting to run into Mean Girl Baloney at her school and while there's no hitting, the mental games are super unpleasant.

One thing I would ask is, what does your kid want done? What solution does he see? I am a big fan of "How to Talk so Kids Will Listen and Listen so Kids Will Talk." Active listening allows a child to feel heard without you deciding what the solution is and trying to make them follow it. That way, whatever YOU decide is best, it takes into account what HE thinks HE can achieve, as well.

It's really hard to do, the urge to just solve my kid's problems and tell her what to think/do is huge! But since she's the one on the front lines, she needs to be her own agent as well.

Also, every school should have a no bullying policy. One kid tells other kids to hurt another kid is not OK, and the school needs to know what's happening.

I thought you might find this article helpful:
http://www.slate.com/articles/.....ies.2.html

No, I don't think you are over-reacting at all. I think you and your son are in a situation with a social bully where it is very easy to be confused by manipulative and clever social tactics, that would make anyone anxious. Bully A's group seems like the sophisticated bullying of a middle school school girl group's social bullying - and not knowing boys, I think that's remarkable. It's actually hard to see how the troublemaker at the center, stirs up trouble and the bystanders who join in become deputies in bullying.

Educating yourself about the social roles the bullies, bystanders, victims, fools and upstanders can play, will help you make sense of this, clarify your thinking and responses and stay one step ahead of the bully and his circle. My daughter and I found the role descriptions in "Queen Bee and Wanabees" helpful. There is probably something more targeted to 8 year old boys but look for something that is targeted to 'social bullying' which is more sophisticated than straight forward bullying.

Suz's comments about 'shutting out' are on target. If you son had actually kicked or hurt one of the other kids he would be playing the part of the fool. The fool gets disciplined by the teachers, not the clever troublemaker and his deputies. Good for your son to see through that. What the trouble-makers group was offering was potential entry into the group, but it also sounds like they were looking for a fool to create trouble for them and then they might - or might not - drop him fast. Good for your son to see through that, but now he might be or already is a target, too. No deputy wants to risk loosing his place in the pack, by being an upstander. Because this is a social group (like a pack of dogs) I think it will be helpful to enlist the intervention of the teacher, principal and maybe the school community.

So I would suggest reading and researching and trying to evaluate how knowledgable your teacher, principal and school is about bullying and looking into bringing this knowledge to their attention if needed.

Maybe your teachers and principal have had excellent training but some adults haven't and don't fully see the bullying that is in front of them and if they do, they are confounded by not having effective ways to deal with it.
When you talk with the teacher, administration etc, you'll have to evaluate:
'Does this person get it?', and if they do, 'Do they know what to do about it". ...

"... effective programs to deal with bullying have appeared only relatively recently. " * They did not exist when I grew up and are only now becoming part of our cultural knowledge. Understanding, stategies, books and programs on the topic are now available. There are programs offered to schools if your school hasn't yet had training. Maybe Izzy's husband on the Council would help drive that if needed.

* I thought you might find this article helpful:
http://www.slate.com/articles/.....ies.2.html

Other books to look at "The Bully, the Bullied and the Bystanders" by Barbara Coloroso or something by Brazzleton - but I don't know if they're directed toward young boys. Oh, I second Suz's suggestion to read with your son books for kids about bullying. We also found that helpful.

Please let us know how it goes for you. Good luck.

I am a bit late to this discussion, but oh, do I feel for you. My DS, who is now aged nine, had a pretty bad bullying incident when he was seven. Fortunately one incident, where he was punched in the stomach by an older boy, was witnessed by a music teacher, and so action was taken swiftly, ie it wasn't a case of he said/she said.
But even so, I did find the school took the issue extremely seriously, and I think the other child had a pretty long history of poor behaviour, and parents who, though well educated and nicely spoken, would not believe their son was ever wrong! We even had an email from the mother saying that my son was annoying and so deserved to be punched!!!
In this case, I would definitely trust your instincts. When I look back, things were happening before the final incident, and I wish I had been able to pick up on the signs a bit earlier. So early action is good I think, to prevent things getting even worse.
I really would alert the principal, because ultimately physical or verbal violence is not okay in schools, and they need to find ways and means to deal with your situation. The class teacher needs to be involved, of course, but I think it needs to go higher up as well. I must say I was really pleased with the way the school handled things for us, but I have heard other stories that were not so successful. But ultimately, as Una said, you are the best advocate for your child. I found keeping my cool with the school to be the best way - ie don't blame them, but work with them to come to a solution. I think it must be hard when parents come in all guns blazing, though it is our natural response I think!!!

Best wishes for a good resolution , and hugs for you mum, it is a tough job some days.

Thanks again everyone for your input. I have wondered over and over again if I was blowing things out of proportions and one week break from school had come at the right time - it has helped us revisit the situation with calmer heads. I am possibly threading fine line (being a newbie in the smallish community) suddenly complaining about something people may find as just rough playing. I use word "just" because there is a lot of social and cultural differences involved, and I have seen that some things in my new country of living are acceptable as opposed to where I've lived before. Some good, some bad - overall, different.

I know what I want the teacher to know and what I expect from her, and most importantly - DS needs to know what sort of things are not tolerable, that we're standing behind him.

IK :: excellent point about "what HE thinks HE can achieve"! I've tried introducing the concept to out conversations in general and find it amazing yet again what effect simply saying the words can lead towards. "How to Talk..." has been waiting on my bookshelf for a while to be read, it's now come to the top of the queue.

The fact our episode had touched home with many tells me it's better to be safe than sorry. I've hoped for perspective and clarity when I started this thread. I got a lot more, thank you. I hope this thread will be helpful to others too.