Ha ha! I found this little gem this morning. I'm sure it won't help

http://sftimes.co/?id=493&#038.....fb_new_493

SUCH a personal choice! I have never understood why people feel free to tell others how to handle procreating! My opinion (only because you asked is that you and your partner should make this decision while trying your hardest to drown out all the noise. I truly believe (as many have expressed) that you do not need to have children to have a full and happy life. On the other hand, don't choose not to have children out of fear (financial etc) or because you're not a baby person. They add complications to everything and are honestly exhausting (at least as babies & toddlers) but so, so worth it (IMO). So it's really deciding what you want. My quick back story is that we spent the first 15 years of our marriage knowing we couldn't have children. It was devastating to me but I eventually came to terms with living child free. As we neared 40 we decided to go ahead and try the only medical alternative available to us and less than a year later we had DD. So I almost feel like I've lived both lives. Having kids was the right choice for me. But I can see it not being the right choice for everyone. Oh - and I was never a baby person but now I am hounding DH to try for another one because I want another little baby so badly! I can't believe I said that because I always thought other women who said that were nuts. So listed to your heart! Such an interesting thread, thanks for starting it.

For those who say you're being selfish for not having kids, start telling them about the world's overpopulation. That ought to shut them up!

BTW, I was never baby crazy and never thought I'd have children. Then seven years into married life we decided to have a child. He is now grown up. The one thing that surprised me was how funny he was, even as a very small child. We were laughing all the time! Still, it was very hard at times since we both worked, so I wouldn't recommend it unless one of you is willing to put your career behind the other's.

I am part of the "baby brigade" so I hesitated to reply. Still, I thought it worth saying.

I didn't want kids most of my life. Bad childhood etc. kids are expensive, and my accountant side couldn't come to terms with the sheer financial impact.

When DH and I got married, he knew I wasn't keen on kids. I learned he really wanted them later, but wanted to make me happy, so said he was fine not having any. After getting married, I worked full time while I got my MBA. There was no time for Kids or talk of them.

After I graduated, we took a year to reconnect, and the Great Recession hit, and it hit us very hard.

After the smoke cleared, and kids came up again, we had a real heart to heart. I am the main income in our house, and if he really wanted kids, he would have to be primary care giver. He agreed, and so we decided to try.

And then nature stepped in and handed us two back to back miscarriages. I actually offered DH a divorce. He assured me over and over he would rather be childless with me than be with anyone else. So we kept trying. Eventually, I had DD.

The week before she was born, I was reading up intently on how to bond with your baby. Even 39 weeks pregnant, I felt nothing toward her. I was terrified I would be a robot mom. DH assured me it would change once they put her in my arms and the mommy hormones kicked in. He said mammals have to have that link or they wouldn't care for a helpless baby. Our biology kicks in most of the time.

He was right. And I fell in love the moment I held her. I would do almost anything for her. But this is not true for everyone.

At the end of day, you have to do what is right for you and your partner. I cannot tell you if you will regret it or what kind of parent you would be. No one knows. But listen to your heart and head.

We have had to make sacrifices for her, and even more are coming, but for us, it feels less like sacrifices. For example, we had to give up our annual vacation to somewhere far away. Now we do family trips in the area. But it doesn't feel like a sacrifice because we want to share the time as a family.

There is NO way you could have convinced me of any of this before she came into my life. None. But again, everyone is different.

After all of this rambling, what I am really saying is the choice is yours and your partner's. If you don't want kids, there is absolutely nothing wrong with it. At all.

Also, I wasn't going to post this but changed my mind in the interest of being truthful - I agree with Caro that those with kids are not all one tribe, any more than those who don't have kids are all one tribe, and I feel a little hurt by this kind of labeling. It was one of the reasons I hesitated to have a child, that worry over the constant judgments and assumptions people make. I never talk to people about their views on having kids unless they raise it themselves, and then I give my honest opinion as best I can.

I think that the common theme in the vast experiences here is that, unfortunately, many people tend to get judgmental about other people's choices-regardless of whether it's choosing to parent or not; choosing to have an only child of siblings; or various other decisions made RE: parenthood.

I am lucky that for the most part, I do not feel a great deal of pressure or judgment from people in my life for not having kids-but, my lack of interest in doing so is SO different from what others in my family and close friends want. I don't feel bullied or judged for my uncertainty, but I do wish I knew more people in real life that were on the same page. Hopefully I don't present a judgmental face to friends-I am thrilled that they are going through such a happy phase.

As for the constant baby-talk- I think a big part of it is the phase most of my social groups are going through, where it seems like everyone has babies or wants babies; and like anything new, greatly desired, and challenging, there's a ton of talk about it; and even more so because most other people in the social groups are going through or are interested in doing the same thing.

The best comparison I have to what my social situation feels like (and it's a terrible analogy) was living in Seattle this year during superbowl season when I don't hate football, and maybe watch a game occasionally, but am not really interested in it. During normal seasons, there's some sports talk at work, on Facebook, and in social situations, and that's ok. But this year, because Seattle not only had a team that was in contention for the SuperBowl but ultimately won, that's ALL I heard about for weeks (aside from the kid-talk, that is!) I got really weary of seeing and hearing about football constantly, losing interest in even contributing to the conversation after a while.
Other people-like my boyfriend- couldn't get enough Superbowl/football talk. To each his own!

There are a couple people people who I think are great, but am thinking about un-following on social media because they post pictures and stories of their kids literally once a day, so that's all I ever see on my stream or hear about from them. I have other friends who share about their kids but are also eager to talk about other topics, so I don't feel as frustrated at having the conversation steered always onto the same topic.

Ah, I wrote a really similar post a couple years ago, around the time DH and I got engaged! All kinds of people came out of the woodwork wanting to know when the baby machine would start producing some product. Like many of the other ladies, I received a lot of judgement - people telling me I was selfish, people shaking their heads at my tragic mistake, or laughing to themselves at how naive I was because "just wait until that clock starts ticking."

I firmly believe that, when given a choice, everyone should follow their heart and go after the life they want. Life is too short to do anything because it is the norm or because of what others might think.

Anyway, I think the best advice I received back then was not to worry about what others think and to kind of fob them off and end the conversation quickly... someone suggested getting a sad look in the eyes and saying, "Ah.. I don't talk about that." Sniff sniff. Instead of debating the issue, I'll just make my argument by being happy with my choice and enjoying the lifestyle I enjoy and showing everyone photos of my cats.

I echo those who said it would be nice if we childless-by-choice could all go get a drink! Not to exclude the mom "tribe" (another can of worms I'm not going to touch except to say that it does happen but not to everyone).

Kari, I stopped to eat some pie mid post so I didn't see your last one - DH and I know just what you mean about the constant kid posts, or rather the lack of posts about our actual friends! I think there are meetup groups out there for DINK (dual income no kids) couples.

Kari, let me also say that the reason many people will give you for having children ("Who's going to take care of you in your old age?") is completely bogus. Yes, some grown children step up when their elderly parents need them, but my observation is that most don't.

The only reason to have a child, in my opinion, is if you think your life would be richer for doing so than not. If you don't feel that way, then as Suze Orman says, "Stand in your truth."

I love all these responses. These choices and issues are an integral part of being a thoughtful human being, and an adult woman. What Marlene said times a billion, ladies!

I will also say that I do not think of with-kiddo or without-kiddo as tribes. People are boring or not boring, is all. I have lost friends because I had my kid, but that's their choice and ultimately their problem - some of them never even bothered to talk to me again after I got pregnant. Their loss. I still talk just as much about clothing, comic books, and their own interests as I ever did. I did personally ditch an acquaintance after they named their son something horrendous and decided he would be raised utterly gender-neutral as an experiment, but TBH? It was because they were pretentious and BORING, and both of us having kids wasn't going to change that any time soon.

I do like babies more than I used to, but mostly because they remind me of my now-not-so little one when she was small. But my distaste for ill-behaved spawn and bad parents has definitely increased. And my sympathy for desperate parents with crying babies on planes has multiplied a millionfold.

In my mind, I was thinking the tribes were All About Babies and Not All About Babies... actual possession of babies not factoring in at all. Some people get really mesmerized. It's a way of life for some.

Did I tell the story about my babysitter recently? Can't remember. There was this girl who really really really wanted to babysit me when I was small. So my mum let her. But I remember riding over to her house, and my mum saying something to the effect of how these are good people but they're all about babies and being home in the kitchen and wall-to-wall carpet. All in all, I got a very clear impression of them being lovely people who just weren't exactly *people like us.* We were crossing tribal lines and I should be respectful of their... *not quite right* ways... and please don't bring any of it home. I.e., don't wonder about the carpet and don't start to like it.

It was before my brother was born; I must have been three - so I suppose it must be emphasized this was a childish interpretation of what was what around me. On the other hand, those are the formative years...

Kari, it's such an important question, and you've received such rich responses.

I have little to add except to say I agree with those who say, don't do it if you don't want to do it. There is nothing selfish in that decision. And nothing wrong with it.

As for the constant assumptions (if not pressure) -- I think that will fade a bit as the years pass. So for now it may be a question of sometimes biting your tongue, sometimes ending certain relationships, sometimes taking a deep breath and confronting people.

I just saw this thread and was really glad to read some of the very accepting responses. Like you, I am firmly childless-by-choice. I knew by the time I was in my mid-teens that having children was not something I was interested in. When my husband and I got together in college, I told him this and now we are in our thirties and have never changed our minds on the subject, nor has my biological clock even considered ticking.

Like you, I prefer the company of adults. Financially, I have other priorities (a house, travel, pets, etc). When I see friends who are pregnant or have young kids, I'm happy for them, but I've drawn a line in the sand and don't regret it. By now, most of our families/friends are aware of our decisions and have stopped asking when we plan to have kids. We have lost touch with some of our friends who have begun to move in more children based circles, but we do still keep in contact with some friends with children and have other friends who are not planning (at least, not yet) on starting a family.

I know many people who had always planned on becoming parents. I know some who were not planning on it but when it happened, are happy and love their children very much. It is definitely a personal choice, and you should never feel bad for making the right choice for you.

I have so many friends who isn't interested on having kids. One of them quite intelligently told me though that it's something you'll never know for certain unless it happens to you. I used to be ambivalent about it, but then I realized I might have just been afraid. I'm hoping to have a baby in the future, nature willing.

Desmo April, I had a Baby Alive too (which I actually asked for, in an early attempt at gender normativity). I'm convinced that thing terrified a generation into at least seriously reconsidering children, if not into out-and-out avoidance.

The real reason my brother and I have no bio kids is, I wanted a Baby Alive and my mom said no in a very cruel and disparaging way. And then she got me some stupid Matchbox cars and my brother a Baby Alive - which he banged on the head in protest as was only right and proper.

My mother says I need to get over it. But it's not something you can help. You cannot just rip away the feeling of punishment, like a weed, surrounding Baby Alive...

First of all, thanks to all of you for chiming in with your experiences and thoughts in such a respectful and open manner.

This Baby Alive conversation made me chuckle. I never had one. Funny thing is when I was a kid I always thought I'd want to be a mom. I played house, played with dolls... and as I mentioned, I babysat a lot and loved it. But I never worked extensively with infants or nonverbal toddlers, and I find them stressful. Older kids who can talk and express curiosity about the world are much more fun and interesting to me. A lot of my friends prefer infants, and based on this thread, it sounds like it's not uncommon to have a preference for a certain age.

I think that I changed my mind about having kids, I probably wouldn't be a bad mother, but I worry that I'd be very unhappy much of the time. The thought of adding postpartum depression, high activity and energy demands and needing to be ON all the time, and isolation on top of my existing clinical depression scares the crap out of me. That combination would probably make me a terrible parent, actually.

Hi Kari,

First of all I really don't get why people constantly tell others what to do with their lives. For me it is simply rude when they do this uninvited.
Secondly, I have a child and love her more than anything in the world. She is so much part of my life that I cannot imagine living without her.But I just want to stab myself with something sharp when people around me assume that I want to talk about kids all the time. Or that I want to hold all the kids. I sincerely hope that I haven't bored my friends with pictures of my child as some of my friends bore me. I mean, I love their kids but my FB page doesn't need to be full of their pictures, which leads me to the question of why do they post the pictures on the net in the first place.

I do think you would be a great mother but is purely your choice to be or not to be.Of course you will have to talk to B. and see if you both can leave with that decision but at the end of the day you know best, because having a child takes much more of the mother than the father no matter how supportive they are.
xoxo

Can we talk about people who show you pics of their dogs/cats?

Rachy, you are too funny. I probably fall into the category of showing pet pictures too often. More often that kid pictures. I used to have pictures of my deceased pets on my desk at work until someone told me I was the only one they knew that kept pictures of deceased pets. Oh well..

deb - My group has just moved floors. Apparently we own the magazine wall rack in the ladies restroom, because it traveled with us. I mention this because I was just looking at the ladies' restroom copy of Ladies Home Journal, which gives the number of women who take more pics of their pets than their significant others as 90%. That's a whopping number.

However, I believe it, and my guess is the other 10% only take pics of flowers - because I have zero pics of my bf on my phone but, yes, I can find you a pic of Lilypup on there.

Hehe.

Celia, I love hearing about your family and M. I adore her!
And as many YLFers know, I share pictures of my pets from time to time (once or twice a month, about.)

The social media spammers I'm talking about seriously post a picture and anecdotes EVERY DAY, at least once a day but usually multiple times. No exaggeration. It's all I ever hear about, and there are a couple of them (who I finally removed from my news feed.) If I posted daily pictures and stories of my rats, I can't imagine how annoyed people would be. I'm sure posting about my pets at all is too much off some people. But daily posts about the exact same subject, I think, is overkill, and when there are several of them at the same time....

I'd just prefer a bit more moderation, maybe conversation about kids AND work and current events and what they did today.

And Deb, I still have pictures of Shadow around. She was my heart dog, and she was like family. Very much understand!

On FB, I generally prefer pics of pets and kids (both cute) to diatribes on political or religious views to which I do not subscribe. <shrugs>. Each to his or her own. At least on FB, you can unsubscribe to a feed or just not read it. With face to face convos, it is a little harder to escape.

Actually, when small kids are around, I think the most difficult thing is to have a real conversation; one eye or ear is concentrating on kiddo to ensure said kiddo isn't killing or harming self or others. It was such a change when that was no longer an essential part of my consciousness!

DD's preschool always had one (or maybe two?) sleepovers every year. They figured the kids already had their napping mats and were familiar with the adults and other kids, so it wasn't that much of a stretch to spend the night. They always had a sleepover on Valentine's Day so the parents could have some time together. At the first sleepover, the parents were at loose ends and didn't know what to do with themselves. By the second, the dinner reservations had long been made and the movie chosen with screening times memorized!

Ugh, angry social media diatribes are the worst. I really do like to hear about family and kids and pets; however, when it's several times a day, every day, and I never hear about anything the person is doing other than taking pictures of their awesome kid... it's too much for me, especially when there are several people all doing it.

Kari,

I know exactly what you mean. I love to see your rats and photos of Shadow and also love the talk about kids and photos.
I was thinking about a particular case I know.
I know that social media is in part building up your perfect image but some people do it in a very disingenuous way.

Kari, I have been following this thread but as the mother to three kids wasn't sure how to respond. I always knew I wanted to be a mother but I was also very afraid of the emotional aspects of raising kids. I knew I could handle the physical parts...lack of sleep, herding cats, etc., although you do underestimate just how tired you will be for YEARS (especially if your kids are close together). So I guess I want to validate your concerns about depression, etc. impacting motherhood. I think it's a very, very valid worry and quite astute of you to consider it. More than anything, your children need you to be there for them in an emotional way. As a mother, you need to take care of yourself in order to give of yourself to your children. I will say, however, that the fierce love I have for my children surprised me....you may be afraid of the kind of mother you would be, but you seem a loving, kind, and generous person and those emotions would likely grow ten-fold for your own child....if you eventually decide to have one.

I guess I want to say that no one should judge you on your choices, because until they walk in your shoes they cannot possibly understand your unique circumstances that influence how you live your life. This may be a trying time for you, as your friends are all in child-rearing mode, but it will pass. Eventually they will emerge on the other side and their other interests will more likely coincide with yours once again.

I saw DH's aunt and uncle last week. Both are in their 70s and childless by choice. The aunt started the topic on having kids because another niece who is in her 30s said she wanted to give her elderly father a grandchild while he was still around. The aunt said that this was a very poor reason to have kids and I asked her if she regretted not having any of her own. She said that she never understood the fascination of having and taking care of babies, but liked when kids get older and start interacting with you. Personally she knew she did not need to have any kids of her own, because she knew enough people who had them and if she wanted her baby/child fix she could have it and go back to her childless home. She added that coming in contact with babies always confirmed her decision not to have any. She and her husband have a full and happy life even without an immediate family.

I found it very interesting to read the perspectives shared in this thread. We have 2 adult children, by choice and luck. It is incomprehensible to me how people presume and judge others on this aspect of life. If ever something were a personal matter, this is it. Do what works for you. There are many paths to parenthood if that is a priority. If not, carry on in other directions. My extended family is about 50/50 parents and non-parents, all content with their choices. Trust your gut.

I appreciate the thoughtful responses here. A real tribute to the depth of this community.

Ever notice how no one asks, Do you have a dog? WELL WHY NOT?! or, Oh, s/he's so sweet! When are you getting the NEXT one?