Need advice about bad work situation - YouLookFab Forum

Category

Off Topic

Welcome! Read about what to wear and how to wear it on the YLF Blog. Join the YLF Forum to ask specific questions or just chat about fashion and personal style. Or check out the curated list of things we love in YLF Finds.

Outfits Ensembles Trends Advice

Need advice about bad work situation

Victoria

(website)

Veteran

I need some advice(perhaps legal, if there are any lawyers on this forum)?

I been in my current job a year. I have been laid off my previous job after the company started downsizing and my boss has been great and I really liked it. My current job is really a nightmare-it was misrepresented to me from the start-meaning I was hired to do one thing and then owner(this is a small business) wanted me to take over 10 other things that I would simply not have time to do. Noone trained me, no one showed me anything, its was extremely disorganized, none the less I learned how to do my job quite well I think(my coworkers say the same).

My boss is horrible-the biggest issue that he is verbally abusive and goes on rants on everyone all the time. Noone can please him with anything and no one does anything right. He declared numerous times how everyone is an "idiot" who works there. But there is also several times when he claimed that I was "acting like a bitch" and "all clients were saying it". Considering that most clients I talk to seem to love me and chit chat every time we speak, they wouldn't be doing it if I was "a bitch" as my boss says. He told me numerous times to "get the hell out of here and don't come back" and when I ask "are you firing me?", he would say"no, I am just upset!"

He constantly interferes in everything and simply doesn't let anyone to do anything without his "input"-I get emails from him at 10 pm how I "messed" something up(but so does everyone else).

This stress has really taken a toll on my health and I have been hit with debilitating migraines. so bad that I had to go to ER one time and they gave me shots. I actually thought I may have a brain tumor or something. I have great anxiety attacks now, every time I see email from him.

Why don't I leave? I have been looking for another job for several months now and so far nothing. Its not easy to look for a job when you have a full time job.

I am honestly past the point of caring about my current position and just wish he would fire me as he often threatens to do(he does that to othes as well). But its still hard not to get stressed out.

If I quit, I can't collect unemployment. I wonder if there is any legal recourse for me to take for "hostile work environment"? Or is there a clause for me to able to collect unemployment if I leave due to his verbally abusive behavior?

I tried to call Dep of Labor but lady said I don't have a case

Off Topic

30 replies

Latest reply was from

Tina

Veteran

Have you tried 'fighting' back? Lay down some of your own rules of how you will/will not be treated. You are off duty at 5:00 pm (or whenever you leave the office) and won't even look at his emails till you're on his clock, for example. I know that may be unusual in this day and age but he sounds very belligerent and extremely difficult. Plus, record EVERYTHING that you deem unacceptable. There should be some recourse for you, plus you don't want him to taint future job prospects. Good luck!

Janet

(website)

Veteran

Oh my, that sounds awful. I'm afraid I have no good advice for you, but I hope someone else more knowledgable will have something useful. But I just wanted to say I hope you can get out of there soon! It's affecting your health -- that's just not acceptable at all.

Victoria

(website)

Veteran

oh yes, I have tried speaking to him that the way he treats me is not unacceptable and unproffesional but that didn't do any good.

The problem is also that he has completely irrational expectations-For example-one time he asked me for report on Friday, around 4 pm. I asked him "do you need this before 5?"

he says"no, Monday is fine"

So I give it to him Monday morning and he has a fit because I was supposed to know somehow that he really DID want it on Friday(even though he said otherwise). If I did everything I was supposed to do by 5 pm and left, he has a fit again because he declared "you should be working harder, thats what I am paying you for"-my salary is actually very low so I don't even know what he is talking about. He is so irritional that I wonder if he actually has some sort of mental issues

Mo

(website)

Veteran

Woo boy, sounds like my BF's store manager. He has started just yelling back at him to shut him down before he really gets rolling. But that's from a man to a man and they are both managers, although he is technically more in charge than my BF. We are moving in 2 weeks so the point is moot now, but I often asked BF if there was anything that could be done. The car business is kind of the wild west as far as PC practices, so it takes practically physical assault. Someone needs to secretly video the crazy and demeaning behavior I think. Much more powerful than stories of 'he's being mean'.
Maybe take a sick day or two and use that to job hunt on the sly? I'd leave as soon as possible either way honestly. Your health is worth more than a paycheck. (we are heading to uncertain job futures ourselves and I know it's stressful, but it works itself out)

Gigi

Veteran

I once had a nasty boss, but not nearly as bad as yours. I checked out a book from the library on workplace bullying because of it. I can't remember the title, but I do remember one slogan from the book: "Those who can, do. Those who can't, bully." Clearly your boss is suffering from some severe feelings of incompetency and is taking it out on everyone in the workplace.

My two cents: I would quit even though you can't collect unemployment. I didn't get out of my abusive work situation until it was too late and I was very sick and had to go on medication. I lost a year of my life trying to recover. These kinds of situations can do incredible harm to a person psychologically. It sounds like your body is reacting in some serious ways and trying to tell you to get out now before more damage is done.

If you decide to stay, maybe it would be worthwhile to go to a therapist to get some support and ideas of how to deal with this guy until you can get another job. The therapist might even know if the man's behavior is so out of bounds as to be suitable for legal action. I wonder if his calling you a bitch would qualify as sexual harassment.

I know you said you wouldn't mind if he fired you, but if you get fired, you wouldn't be able to collect unemployment either (at least that's what I assume). So I would quit now and give yourself a bit of time to recover and then start looking for a new job.

Tina

Veteran

It really does sound as though he's unbalanced. I can't believe that employers can get away with that kind of behaviour. We own and run a small business and we would NEVER get away with this (not they we'd try). We live in an area where the job opportunities exceed the number of workers. This is just beyond my comprehension.
I agree with the others, quit while you're ahead. I like Mo's idea of taking a sick day (or 2) and job hunting.

rabbit

Veteran

Sending you a lot of sympathy. I would maybe see if you can take an afternoon off just to have a meeting with the local unemployment office. I know it varies state to state, but some states are more lenient than others in how it's actually applied. Additionally they might be able to give you some advice as it is affecting your health. Another idea is to try to take sick days or vacation days to look intensely for another job (even just a tide-over one).

froggiebecky

Veteran

i'm sending you sympathy, too. I'm currently reading a book--called 'the no asshole rule", and it aims at addressing people like this. I'm not far enough into it to know if it gives strategies about how to deal with it when it's your supervisor, but it's good so far.

I can also recommend a book called 'the 48 laws of power'. A friend of mine read it when she had a crappy boss. She ended up quitting.

It's so frustrating when 'my boss is abusive' doesn't get you a case. On the Monday thing--did you argue that with him? "I asked you on friday and you said monday was fine, here it is monday and it's done--what are you so upset about?"

I guess the best thing you can do is document--restrict those types of things to email, so that way it's in writing. And start a journal--write down every occurrence as it happens. You never know when you may need it.

Traci

Veteran

My first response would be run for the hills! It sounds so toxic that you should just leave and figure everything else out from there.

But, if you're unable or unwilling to pack up and go, my next idea is the total opposite. Try to find empathy and compassion for him. Why is he freaking out all the time? Can you find any rhyme or reason to it? Maybe it's financial? Maybe he's got waaaay too much on his plate? Maybe he's lacking in some of the skills he needs to do his job effectively, but as the boss he thinks he has to be the know it all? or maybe he is feeling taken advantage of? He sounds like a frightened and angry little boy man.

A phrase to add to your repertoire is "I'm not going to stand here and let you berate me. Once you've cooled off, you can find my at my desk so that we can discuss the next steps."

retailgirl

Veteran

If you can afford to be without your paycheck, you should quit. Unemployment regs. vary by state...you might be turned down initially but get it on appeal. And I wouldn't take the word of some woman at the dept. of labor, they are sometimes wrong. It might be worth just a one time consultation with a lawyer. It sounds like a terrible environment and it can't help but affect you negatively.

texstyle

(website)

Veteran

If I was able to quit (financially I mean) I think I'd probably do that. Or if he tells you to "leave and don't come back" again, then perhaps you should quietly go collect your things, tell your coworkers you were fired, and leave and NOT go back. I don't think he'd have much recourse if he really tells someone to leave - it seems the same thing as telling them they are fired.

If you simply cannot afford to do it, then the only other recourse I suppose is to have an intervention. Get a couple other co-workers together, sit him down and tell him that this isn't working and you need to figure out a better option for all involved. It very well could be money issues - many small businesses face extreme financial stress and don't know what to do about it. Banks aren't exactly waiting in line to give small businesses loans.

You could also contact score.org - it's part of the U.S. Government's Small Business Dept. and it's a large affiliation of retired business professionals who give free advice (phone, e-mail or even sometimes in person).They may have some suggestions and you can probably contact someone with legal human resource expertise.

ironkurtin

Veteran

Quit. Whatever he's paying you, it isn't worth your health, sanity, or self-respect.

Laurinda

Veteran

He may have real mental illness problems, beyond anything you want to be entangled with. I've dealt with a boss like that, it is no fun. Would it make sense to 'get fired' so you can collect unemployment insurance and look for a new job? (There are pros and cons to that, I'm sure.)

LACeleste

Veteran

Dignity is non negotiable. Protect your health.

TraceyLiz65

(website)

Veteran

I think you find this quite often in smaller businesses. It is toxic and that kind of stress is unhealthy. Sounds like a miserable person who isn't happy with anything or anyone. I am convinced that this is an epidemic among men and recently read on irritable male syndrome. Perhaps when you quit , you should print this article up and leave it for him in hopes maybe it will hit home and spare others...I don't think you can stay, it is too toxic!
HUGS to YOU!

http://contributors.healthline.....ng-your-re

LAR101

I am so very sorry. It sounds like you're in a tight bind. You have a toxic abusive boss and when he acts out, you resonate with it, your stress goes up and you unground. It's the combination of the two - his abuse and your reactiveness to it - that creates this toxic environment for you. Toxic to your emotional and physical health.

Without the skills to deal with his mental illness, the ability to set boundaries, the cunning to get fired (for unemployment benefits) or the means to quit, you are abused. So you must try to learn some skills on the job, 'so to speak'... to get you through until you find a way to leave. And you will find a way. Don't worry.

You probably have a role here. Not a role that says 'Please abuse me.'. You did nothing to deserve this but a role where you don't have the training to deal with an angeraholic, toxic man proably suffering from anxiety. Anything you can do to find strategies to maintain your calm and set boundaries helps you, until you can get out. Not that you can fix him or his toxicity, or should.

- -----Find your power and use it wisely.
Even if you can't afford to get fired, you probably still have power that you are not using. Power that you probably don't even know you have and don't know how to use. If getting fired is an acceptable route, this gives you the freedom to exercise more power. Either you get fired or things improve.

Observe your co-workers to see if anyone has useful strategies for setting boundaries on your boss's crazy making.

I might set boundaries on my personal time and not think about work during certain times. Possibly even let the boss know.

I found a little gem in this book once:
http://www.amazon.com/Coping-D.....0440202019#
The authors identify different types of crazy and then talk about stategies to combat them. The gem I found was about dealing with an angry abusive person. I was being consiliatory and made the mistake of apologizing and sure enough she attacked. The book's gem, (read after the fact) predicted this. So crazy people don't react in logical ways. In another attack, I brought a colleague along, and marveled as the colleague set a boundary. My colleague said she repeated the same line 7 times. If 10 times and no success, she recommended we fire this hardworking volunteer and volunteers are hard come by.

- ------Practice remaining detatched and centered in the face of crazy.
I might look at a 12 steps program for families, if you are so inclined. IMHO, A lot of it is about remaining grounded in the face of crazy. I don't know if such a group exists but I would call it Family Groups for Rageaholics.

A meditation program, might offer some support.
I would definitely try to look at him as suffering some sort of mental illness much like a fever that interferes with his thinking. It might help you remain grounded and detatched from his rants.

-------A story to cheer you up ---
When my friend, Betsy's boss, for maybe the third time, dumped yet another 'urgent' requests on her at 5pm. She reponded greatly annoyed something like this: 'Robb, you've known about this all day. It's 5pm and I have plans. I am going home and not thinking about this all evening. .... ... (then firmly) However, as a favor, I will come in early and try to finish this but I won't promise anything.' She made it clear that this was a favor and he didnt' deserve this. She had him groveling out of her hand. Her boss was a simple idiot, not abusive.

---- You will find an acceptable way out --- have faith.

Victoria

(website)

Veteran

I appreciate your advice everyone but I can't afford to quit. I have taken a day off and I have gone on several interviews but so far nothing. I am stuck

as far as unemployment, you can get unemployment if you are fired for unsatisfactory work performance. You can't get it if you steal, lie, cheat, get violent etc-that's what I was told

N-Marie

Veteran

This sounds awful. I like Traci's response- it's how I treat my toddler when she is treating me disrespectfully.

I basically say - "I don't like being shouted at. When you are ready to talk to me nicely, I will listen."
If you are ready to quit, then you might as well try everything in your arsenal to make him respect you and treat you better, including shutting him down by walking away when he is berating you. And if he fires you, then maybe you can get unemployment

In the meantime, step up your efforts to find a new job, if there is any way to do so. In many industries, it's easier to find a job while you already have one.

Victoria

(website)

Veteran

thanks for support, ladies. I'm trying to remain optimistic but just today I received a rejection for yet another job I interviewed for. Its rather depressing, considering that I am more than qualified and I thought that interview went remarkably well. oh well

Mo

(website)

Veteran

Oh, Victoria, don't take it personally! Heck, I wasn't rehired at a job I'd worked at on and off for 18 years!!! (that was when Denise aka Cocolion had met up with me in Tahoe when I was down and out lol). Eventually, the next year, I got hired back on, but sometimes things just are how they are and it's not a reflection on you or your talents.
But there is no harm in barking back to some degree, at the best it will earn you some respect and boundaries, at the worst it might at least get you fired! Either way, I bet you will feel better.

Jeanie

Veteran

Oh dear, I've worked for a toxic boss once and it just isn't worth your health. Quit if you can afford it. If not, ignore him. Angry men feed on any anger you put toward them. Do enough work to get by and spend your time job hunting. Good luck on getting out. It will happen.

Isabel

Veteran

Victoria, first, I am soooo sorry that you are going through this. I am 50 years old and have seen a lot in my day. This is what I would do today if I was in your shoes :

Whenever he tells me to leave, I would leave for the day ( I would not ask about being fired, I wouldn't quit, I would just say "OK" and go home. If he says, " Don't be stupid, I don't want you to go." My response would be, " No, I think that you have a good idea. I seem to be upsetting you. I will give you some space. See you tomorrow ! " Done. No other conversation, no discussing, nothing. I would get my bag and leave. ) Come back the next morning like nothing happened. One of two things are going to happen : He will fire you and you can collect unemployment or he will stop bullying you. BUT document every single instance in a pocket calendar. Every single one. That way if he tries to interfere with your unemployment, you can point to all the days that he told you to go home.

Regarding the emails, send back a reply, "Your feedback would be more helpful to me if you could be less emotional and have fewer personal attacks. Thank you. " Reply to every, single, nasty email the same way. ( Cut and paste over and over and over. And save as many of the emails as you can. )

He is obviously someone that doesn't listen and isn't moved to action. Therefore, you must act. And you must act as if you take him seriously and at his word. The customers think that you are bitch ? " Oh. Sorry to hear that. Could you mediate between me and the customers so that I can learn from it ? " Or better yet, " I will take a poll of my customers in order to address it. " Call him on what he says. Have a very short reply and stick to it. End of story. Call him out and do it professionally. And then follow with ACTION. Poll your customers, send back that short reply to the email , and leave for the day.

I tend to think that he may be unbalanced or utterly stressed out and miserable, BUT , he can learn like Pavlov's dog. : )

Good Luck !!!!

Niki Lea

Veteran

Oh Victoria, what an awful situation! The way your boss is treating you is completely unacceptable. I don't think you need to question your skills at all. He is very clearly highly, highly abusive. I'm shocked that he has any employees at all!

Isabel's advice is good. Document your interactions with him, including times and dates. And when he tells you to leave, do it. But write down that he told you to go and tell someone in your office "he's sending me home today", so he doesn't try to make it look like you quit.

I would also start calling him out on his behaviour in the ways Isabel suggested. If only even to feel like you're taking your power back. No one has the right to treat you like he does. I wish I could swoop in there and give him a piece of my mind!

TraceyLiz65

(website)

Veteran

His comment regarding the customers is laughable and you should question him if that's true why in the world wouldn't he fire you????

ironkurtin

Veteran

I've told myself I "can't" quit in the past and it really and truly made me ill with a chronic condition I have to this day, because stress attacks your weakest system and sometimes it doesn't recover. You are the best judge of what you can afford to do, but ask yourself if it's worth long-term migraines (for example) to have a short-term solution.

If you truly believe you cannot leave this situation without another one, then you have a two choices:
- change him
- change your response to him
I don't know if you can change him. But you can absolutely control your response to him if you want. Some thoughts:
1)You actually have the advantage here, because if you push back, what can he do? Fire you? Go for it! Might be the best thing in all worlds!
2) I don't know your personality, but I encourage you to seize power within yourself and stop letting this jerk's idiot opinions ruin your day. He gives you contradictory instructions and is cruel to your face. His value judgements are worthless, especially as they apply to you. Ignore them.

Hang in there and power on!

viva

Veteran

Victoria, I took a job for a guy I thought I knew really well about 7 years ago, and within a week I knew I had made a huge mistake. I won't go into all the details here but it was terrible -- the job was clearly not what it was purported to be, and he was very clever at finding crafty ways to make my life there very difficult and to undermine my confidence. (Even as I write this, my heart is beginning to race.) I was not in a position to quit. It was a high level job, and I had two kids, and my family relied on my income. I knew I would not find a similar position easily in the area where I lived. After about three months, I found a local therapist (she advertised as a "life coach") to talk through the situation. I saw her about six times, paying out of pocket -- and it was well worth it. She helped me see that #1: I was not crazy. The situation was dysfunctional, and this guy was likely a narcissist in the diagnosable sense of that term. He was unlikely to change, ever. #2: I had to decide what I was going to do: stay or leave. So I decided to stay for one year, and in that time, lay the groundwork for my next move. And she gave me the tools I needed to get through that year. On my one-year anniversary, I resigned. I left to start my own business, which I realize is not on option open to everyone -- but here's what I took away from that experience and what I offer to you.

I get that you may not financially be able to walk away. I couldn't either. But maybe you can sacrifice some other spending just enough to get yourself a professional mentor who can see you through this time. Believe me, this woman saved me.

If you set a time frame, it may help your sanity. Give yourself 10 months, or whatever. Try to put some money aside in that time while you continue to look for other work. Maybe the mentor will help you think creatively about options you have not considered. Then when the time is up, leave if you can -- to a new situation, or to a holding period where you can live on some of that money you have banked. I don't know what is possible for you. But for me, having a future deadline helped every single day.

I'm so, so sorry you are dealing with this. That was truly the hardest year of my professional life. Some people really get off on the misery of others. Please try to get some help through this.

Vivian

Laura

(website)

Veteran

Next time he bullies you, look him straight in the eye and say, "I've talked to a lawyer and I know my options." I don't know the size of the company but if you have an HR person you can say, "Do you want me to file a grievance with HR?" And then I would make looking for a job your #1 priority even if it means using some sick days. You have to get away from this bully. Hugs to you!!

avicennia

Veteran

Lots of very good advice here. My thoughts are with you Victoria.

Victoria

(website)

Veteran

Ladies, I TRULY appreciate all your advice and sympathy. It definatately helps to know that other people went through similar situations and that I am not alone!

12