Ever fire anyone? - YouLookFab Forum

I ran a process to hire a finance officer last year. The successful candidate started in January but on a one-year assignment rather than permanent at his choice. I realized some time ago that it wasn't working. I have a strong team and they work really well together. They are all intelligent, articulate and supportive so when I started getting feedback that they didn't want to work with him, I knew things were going downhill.

I called the manager in his home position to make sure if I ended the assignment early, he would have a place to go. I called a meeting with him after but never got the chance to broach the subject. Yesterday I did and approached it from the perspective of how the culture and work fit him rather than the other way around. I suggested it wasn't a good fit for him and that perhaps he would be happier returning to his old job. I mentioned that I had talked to his manager and that she had called me last week to say that they have a lot of work for him and would welcome him back.

I said I would be calling his manager this morning and he asked if he should be there. I said I would speak to her first and then we would talk again. When I spoke to her she mentioned that he had called her this morning and was asking about the first conversation. One of my issues with him is that he doesn't take direction AT ALL. I have spent hours and hours giving him feedback on an assignment and he gives it back without any of the changes or direction. This was just another example.

I talked to him again today and he asked me for more detail so I gave it to him. I tried to be friendly and nice as I described how he didn't appear to take direction, how his colleagues and I perceived him as being argumentative, how he was concerned he had less project work to do but yet forgot all about a project I assigned him a month ago. I gave concrete examples of times he asked for direction, I provided it, he argued about it and then asked the team the same question during a meeting.

I felt like I was kicking a puppy. He commented on my role as manager and I made it clear this wasn't about respect or authority - it was about getting the work done. He wants to stay until October and I want his last day to be Sept. 4th so will likely compromise with sept 18th.

8 years ago

Elly

Veteran

I'm sorry-- that sucks. I don't "fire" persay-- but I have had to flunk students. I run our internship program and have had two students that sound just like your employee--- nice enough but defiant yet seemingly unaware that they aren't functioning at a high level or are being argumentative. Plus, both were borderline inappropriate with female staff members.

Laura (rhubarbgirl)

(website)

Wow, how frustrating. It sounds like it's almost worse that you can't *really* fire him - at least then at that point he'd a) realize the pointlessness of arguing with his manager about his performance or lack thereof and b) wouldn't be your problem anymore.

At this point I'd stop being so kind and detailed - not that you need to be mean or anything, but this guy isn't listening to what you're saying. Going more brief and directive might wake him him up, or at least stop wasting your time. Although, at this point there's not a lot you can gain from it, since he'll soon be gone - just reiterate his last date and refuse to engage about the details of his performance anymore, since he's obviously not interested in changing it.

Word Lily

Yuck, no fun. I think I only had to terminate someone once, but it was pretty drama filled (although not face-to-face).

I agree with Laura, maybe just stop engaging on the subject. More cut and dried, as close to monosyllabic answers on the subject as possible? The decision has been made, nothing he says or does now will change it.

rachylou

You didn't mention HR... No HR involvement?

deb

I was in management for a while and did not care for it. Project work suits me much better and I do not have to fire anyone. I am not good at it.

Anonymous

I used to be in management and while I hated to fire people, I found it necessary for the health of the organization. It takes a great deal of documentation and meeting with the individual regularly to see if he/she can improve in the position or finding a better fit elsewhere within the organization or sometimes just letting them go. Many times individuals get so pissed, believing they are being singled out that they just quit.

The first time I fired someone I think I was more nervous than him and he told me not to worry he will land on his feet. I think people know when things don't work out. They just need to be "pushed" to leave whether on their own or by you pushing them out the door.

cheryle (Dianthus)

Thanks ladies. I doubt it is something anyone enjoys doing.

Rachy, I contacted our labour relations advisor a few months ago for advice and was told that the assignment agreement included a 2 week cancellation clause and I could end it at any time.

Thistle

You have my deepest sympathies on this.

I have had to fire people, and it first involves a VERY painful process known as a PIP or performance improvement plan. You have to try to make them work even when they aren't (the employee in question was posting to facebook during work hours, and we were being notified of it by her work facebook friends - this was just the tip of the iceberg). But in the US, it is really easy for employees to sue for wrongful termination.

I have found personality is key. I can teach a smart, hard working person almost anything, even down to how debits and credits work. But if they don;t fit the company culture, there is nothing I can do to help them be successful other than hope they figure it out and move on.

Maneera

I don't see the problem here at all. You can terminate the agreement at any point of time...yet you're worrying about firing someone who is (1) Not good at his job (2) Has no desire to improve.

I'd simply terminate the contract and have him leave by 4th September, as you wanted. Firing is never easy. Not for anyone. But as a professional who takes her job very seriously, I hate to see so many people take their jobs for granted. They don't follow direction, they think they know everything hence have nothing to learn and will not change their attitude, and they will continually raise 'issues' just to sound like they are interested in their job, when they refuse to ever address those 'issues' despite getting plenty of help, advice and direction.

This said individual is wasting your time and his. His, I don't care about, and neither should you. He gets PAID to do his job....so he should either do it well, or find another one more suited to his caliber and personality.

I'm not encouraging you to be rude, but I am encouraging you to learn to be a little ruthless, since you handle a managerial role. Help, direction and encouragement only works on those who want to improve, change, fit in, and become a valuable addition to the team. It doesn't work on this sort of people. Refrain from any further discussions, end his employment as suited to YOU, and let him realize that he needs to step up his game if he wants to be a good prodessional. You'll be doing him a favour in the long run. Sometimes a kick in the ass is just what we need to wake up!

Good points Thistle and Manny. I do a fair bit of introspection and realize that I have been reluctant because I just don't like the guy and didn't want it to be personal.

Thank you all for your comments. I know it is the right decision. My team is spread across the country and I have been very proud of how well they work together and support each other. He doesn't fit into that environment and has to go. I am going to pick a date today and communicate it to him and his manager and its done.

kkards

so, here in the US, my experience is that none of what you have done would have been done without very clear and concise direction from HR. unfortunately i have had to counsel and fire a number of employees. its really hard, but a good HR person can counsel and coach you so that its less painful, and to make sure that nothing being said or done will reflect negatively on the manager or the organization. honestly, most people i've had to fire have known it was coming and its a relief to get it out in the open.

MsMary

Yes, I've had to fire a young lawyer or two who wasn't working out. It's never fun or easy. I am firmly convinced that short and sweet and firm is the best way to go. Remember, you don't have to get him to agree with your decision, or like it. You just have to convey the information, which is that he will be leaving on X date. And all of that is up to you, not up to him.

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