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Canadian fabbers: Asking someone what they do for a living

Gigi

Veteran

I was on a dating site recently, and a question came up about asking someone what they do for a living when getting to meet them. Someone from Canada was quite offended at the question, viewing it as a way to find out how much money he made. Those of us from the US said that it is a completely acceptable question for small talk.

So, Canadian fabbers, is this question not something normally asked in your neck of the woods? Or is the Canadian on the dating site perhaps originally not from Canada but from a country where this question is not culturally acceptable?

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21 replies

Latest reply was from texstyle

chewyspaghetti

Veteran

I have heard American men say the same thing- that they feel asking what you do for a living is a way to find out their income. It is a very common question in the US though.

Anonymous

As a Canadian, no, I would not make that the first question I asked of anyone new. I know nothing about dating sites (lol) , but even in general conversation, it's not really polite to ask right away for exactly the reason you suggested. Plus, that suggests you define or characterize someone by their job, which is not always great either. I ask that question well into getting to know someone, and when it becomes a natural part of the discussion. Most of us would die rather than bring up money with each other

Jules

Veteran

Hmmm, I don't think there's a hard-and-fast "Canadian" rule on this.
I think it's common enough in small talk here in Toronto although not standard. . I know I read somewhere a comparison with England (I think?) where apparently it's not considered polite because the person may be out of work, but I can't remember whether that essay was Canadian or American. I wouldn't say Torontonians think it's rude, per se. This is a fairly work-oriented city though, and I don't think we really have a monolithic culture. It also depends on context. My husband's co-workers will probably ask, but it's less likely at a neighbourhood party. I distinctly remember a friend getting upset at a party I brought her to in our twenties because everyone was asking "and what do you do?". They were all ambitious recent grads who moved to Toronto to pursue their nascent careers, and she was not, nor was this her idea of party conversation.
It's been many years since i was on a dating site but I thought identifying as a "professional" (which doesn't mean much) was a pretty standard statement.

ClaraT

Veteran

As an American, I never ever ask (although as Lisa notes, sometimes it naturally surfaces). If someone has a job they are passionate about, it quickly comes up; otherwise, it is just not as interesting as a more open question ("what do you love to do?" e.g.).

chewyspaghetti

Veteran

And unfortunately, I found that many of the men on dating sites were un or under employed, so of course they were sensitive to that question.

Aziraphale

Veteran

What? Since when is it rude to ask someone what they do for a living? It's one of the first things you ask a new person. I suppose one could argue that, in the particular context of a dating site, it might be a veiled way of trying to suss out how much money someone makes. But in real life, if you ask someone what they do, it's because you're interested to know what they do (or else you're just making small talk). After all, most people work. A person's career, if they have one, helps define who they are. Personally, I enjoy answering that question.

At any rate, I don't think this weird moratorium on asking a person about their job is a Canadian thing. I think the person who got offended was just covering up their insecurities.

ClaraT

Veteran

ps I don't think it is rude Aziraphale, but it seems to be considered by others to be a particularly American conversation opener. I just asked a French co-worker and she said, "Oh, Americans always ask. In France it is more typical to talk about a topic at first--a movie, an event, the news." So that is one perspective that has nothing to do with insecurities but more with personal space (conversationally speaking).

Aziraphale

Veteran

That is interesting, Clara. Well, I suppose you could say that Canadians always ask, too. It's not a conversation starter, usually, but it's a popular small talk topic at gatherings and parties.

We are not so different from Americans in many respects, after all.

minimalist

Veteran

I'm 100% with Clara.

I wouldn't say it's rude, but I've noticed that in the U.S., and in some other places I've spent a lot of time, asking this question (vs making what I would personally consider actual conversation) is strongly correlated with social background and some other potential indicators of common ground. People who feel this is a natural first question will naturally find themselves surrounded by others who feel the same, and the perception that everyone asks this becomes self-affirming. And vice versa.

It's entertaining at certain parties to observe the different ways in which non-askers deal with this question from askers.

minimalist

Veteran

As for the dating site angle, there are fairly rapid ways of figuring out whether someone is financially independent without asking so directly. I know someone who will only write to or reply to men who state their incomes in their profiles, because of her perception that most men are "struggling," and meanwhile she's missing out on meeting men who are doing just fine and value discretion.

Perhaps some of this gets back to context in culture.

Barbara Diane

Veteran

ClaraT, I love that question. I'm happy to have a great question for my next small talk situation.

Suz

(website)

Veteran

Interesting! At parties that I've attended both in Kingston (mid size city) and Toronto and Vancouver (where I have also lived) it's a very common question, but then the parties would be more along the lines of what Jules says -- not dating oriented. Either parties for my partner's work, or parties in the neighbourhood or parties with the parents of my kid's school mates, etc. If they are parties related to my work, the people already know what I do, so it does not come up. Ha!

I think in general I aim for common ground first before wading into job territory, (so I might talk about the food or ask how the person knows the host etc.) but socializing online is a bit different than in person. And I'm not familiar with the online dating situation.

minimalist

Veteran

Yes Barbara Diane, isn't that a great question?
IIRC, at our first actual date-date, Mr Max asked me something along the lines of, "so what does your usual week look like?" and he got information about some portion of my most time-intensive income stream.

Aziraphale, back when I was dating, men who asked this question were very often coming from a place of insecurity and fear. Fair enough; they wanted to avoid an additional dependent. Their method of gaining security around this (asking directly) meant they're best matched to women who also prefer to be so direct. My vague or annoyed responses probably left them with the feeling they had dodged a bullet. While I felt the same, because I couldn't build a life with someone who colors the unknown with fear and worst-case scenarios. Reminds me of this:
http://forum.mrmoneymustache.c.....to-people/

Friends in some professions prefer not to discuss their work right away thanks to the inevitable requests for (free) consultations. Others, because of the always-the-same comments and questions. Of the people I know with the most interesting work, their jobs are also the least interesting things about them. So why not let the conversation unfold naturally?

Thanks Gigi, great topic. So rarely do people communicate about how we communicate.

Sal

Veteran

It is fascinating how different cultures communicate, and different etiquettes.

Here there is often a lot of jostling around trying to work out people you know in common, through school, university or sports. "Six degrees of separation" I guess.

I guess there are various faux pas that we can all make when trying to make small talk - assuming someone is in full time work, assuming people have children, assuming people do or don't drink or smoke etc..

Aziraphale

Veteran

Lol, minimalist, it's not like I'm going to attack people with the question! At social events, conversations do unfold naturally. Asking about a person's work is a natural question. Like I said, it's often an important part of who they are.

You and I are different people. I'm often very interested to hear about a person's work, especially if they are passionate about it. People who are passionate about their work tend to be passionate about other things I like to talk about, like current events, art, science, literature or culture. I'm usually less interested in hearing about their children (unless I know them personally) or their hobbies (unless they are really cool hobbies -- not something like golf or sailing).

Having said all that, I've never used a dating website and I guess I don't really know the etiquette!

minimalist

Veteran

I'm very interested in hearing about people's work, if that's what they'd like to talk about. If so, they'll bring it up on their own. Asking directly is only "natural" if that's how things are done in your particular social group.

I'm also interested in hearing about golf or sailing, if that's what they're into, even though those aren't topics I would bring up. Here as well, Clara's question is a winner.

No idea about current dating etiquette. I did manage to talk a friend out of asking dates whether they intended to continue supporting themselves once in a relationship. He's on the spectrum, so some raw directness is just the way things are, but this question wasn't working in his favor on any level.

Aziraphale

Veteran

Lol I guess you've never been trapped at a cocktail party talking to a golf enthusiast...or worse, a car racing enthusiast...gaaaah.

Good manners dictate that I listen attentively. I try to become interested. It doesn't always work.

Gigi

Veteran

This is very interesting, that there may be an American cultural thing at play here.

From what I could see on the dating forum, the person's shocked response at the possibility of being asked what he does for a living didn't have anything to do with dating per se. It sounded like it was just bad manners in his mind, dating site or not.

I am with those who try to "feel out" whether there is some kind of common ground before delving into the question of work. I wouldn't start with it right off the bat, and I try to avoid it altogether since it is so commonplace. But when the conversation starts to die, I oftentimes pull it out. Sometimes it turns out to be a great stepping stone into another topic. And although what you do might not be *who you are*, it does encompass the lion's share of most people's week and so is an important part of their life, for good or for ill.

Style Fan

Veteran

I have found that this depends on the group of people you are with. I rarely ask people what they do for a living. I would ask people what their interests are and if their work came up in conversation then fine.
Toronto has a reputation for being more work oriented than Vancouver. Apparently in Toronto people will ask you what you do for a living. In Vancouver people will ask you what you do for fun. I really haven't noticed much of difference. I have spent a lot of time all over Canada. No time on a dating site.

UmmLila (Lisa)

Veteran

As an immigration lawyer, I interact with people from many different countries every day. I have to quiz them about their work, why they are especially good at what they do and even ask them what their salaries are, because it's necessary for their visas. Of course everyone understands why we are doing this. However, the people who are most likely to be super-uncomfortable with it are British or from Scandinavian countries.

I know how to restrain myself in social settings, though.

texstyle

(website)

Veteran

I never really ask in that direct way "what do you do for a living?" but I guess I do end up finding out if I speak to someone very long. They are usually the ones to bring it up it seems to me.

I try not to ask things like "where did you graduate or where did you go to school or university?" for similar reasons.