You could try http://www.makeyourownjeans.com where you put in your measurements and they make the pants/jeans to fit you.

Keep pockets on jeans higher and not too wider or narrow so that your butt is flattered.

I would also say for you skirts are definitely better than trousers - knee-high boots are great with skirts in winter with opaque or woollen tights.

Don't tuck in tops.

Kari, I'm also short waisted and I just measured from natural waist to crotch point and also got 12 inches. I would not ever want jeans with a 12 inch rise!!!! I don't think it would be comfortable and not at all flattering either. The proportions would be wrong.

Through experimentation, on me, the best rise length - most comfortable, most flattering, and most likely to eliminate muffin top - is 8-1/2 to 9 inches, possibly 10 inches... but that is not close to 12 inches. What rise are you wearing now? For reference, when I measure from belly button to crotch point I get 9 inches. So perhaps it shouldn't be a "waist" band but a "belly" band ... hee hee.

As for the flat butt, this is more likely a factor of the back rise, not the front rise. Back rises come in all sorts of measurements too. Through trial and error I find I like my back rise and front rise to be close to the same measurement. A 14 inch back rise is sure to give me a terribly saggy butt. :-(

You might be interested in these jeans:
http://www.urbanoutfitters.com.....NS_APPAREL

Very stretchy but don't bag out, skinny for tucking into boots, nice pocket sizing and placement (make butt look good), *and* a 10 inch rise. These jeans eliminate muffin top 100% on me - but they are still not as high as my natural waist. They are very comfortable jeans to wear.

Kari - I have the same short-waisted and long-rise issues so I'll be following this thread. I usually wear my pants a bit below my belly button now.

Kari, I am the same way. I always wondered why high rise pants are better for me even though I'm short waisted--supposedly the opposite is true. I definitely liked how I looked in low rise pants back when I could wear them, since they would do their job of elongating my torso. But now I would probably be arrested. Besides the muffin top, they definitely don't give my butt any coverage. The back rise is at least as important as the front rise. Most back rises are too short for me and I end up with my butt being cut off about 2/3 of the way up. Not very flattering. Think Angie's "bottom cleavage" post. I need a good 15" to feel completely secure. 14" is passable. I had some jeans with an 11" back rise and I swear about half my rear was hanging out. Awful.

For me, it would be about 12" from crotch to waist. I work with "mid rise" jeans for now. for most that is probably 8". For me it is 10". 10" is hard enough to find, 12" is outright impossible. I also need to readjust to avoid muffin top after sitting. The waistband always seems to slide down on me, below the pooch, but it's definitely not a matter of going down a size (I would suffocate). Also, I was between sizes at Express too. That's why I sent the Mias to Asha. Maybe Express is just a bad brand for us.

I would not worry about your butt looking huge. You aren't tucking in your tops, so no one is going to be able to tell where your waistband is. Your shirt will be covering it.

To be perfectly honest, none of my jeans and pants fit 100%. Even my beloved Rich and Skinny High jeans slide down and have to be adjusted and don't hit at my natural waist. But I have learned to be happy with "almost". Otherwise, the only other solution I can see is Imogen's suggestion of having them custom made. I don't think we're going to find anything that fits off the rack any time soon, and this isn't the sort of issue that can be addressed with alterations since it is a matter of adding fabric and not removing it. It might be the way to go.

I really wish I could whisk you two off to India where we can get all our clothes tailored from scratch all the time :-) I honestly do really miss having clothes made for ME and not the other way round. I hope you can find workable alternatives and solutions.

Ladies, are you measuring your front or back rises?

Kari, if money were no object, I’d take you straight to Nordies and get you into the following dress pant brands:

o Classique Entier
o Facconable
o Wowyn

Have you tried different dress pant fits at BR and AT? Also, stitch down the tabs of the MC pants so that they stay put. As for Autumn, boots with frocks and skirts plus tights or hose are the way to go.

All this measuring this week. New things to think about.
I have a 12"rise too (front) and the pants that fit me best are Martin fit from BR.
I have had luck with Classique Entier come to think of it.
Angie is a genious!

Do you all carry measuring tapes and go after the right size straight off? Or use a trial and error method?

I'm glad Entier fits, Chris. It's a great brand.

Interesting. I’ve just measured too, Chris. My front rise from waist to crotch is 10.5 (back is 13.5), and I'm average-waisted (2 hands beneath the bust) and 5ft 6. How different we all are. No wonder clothes are hard to fit!

I wonder if it's because short-waisted people usually have higher waists, and therefore further from the crotch point.

My front rise is 12" and back is somewhere around 14" or 15".

I have a similar body proportion.

Yes, for trousers I always wear Classique Entier from the Individualist department at Nordstrom.

For jeans I wear Joe's Muse and AG Club. I'm experimenting with James Jeans now.

I think the constant readjusting of the waistband when being worn is because the pants are so far from our natural waist indention point that they have no place to 'rest' or *anchor* and therefore move around a lot.

Oh wow, thanks for all of the tips. Also, thanks for those of you that shared your similar fit issues. It's too easy to work my way into a funk over my body when I think I'm the only person that has this peculiar combination of proportions.

Imogen, do you know of anyone who has successfully tried the Make Your Own Jeans route? Their website is full of positive reviews, but I've also come across a worrisome amount of negative testimonies about the company online. It sounds like they do not accept returns of any kind and charge you for pricey return international shipping and alterations if they make a mistake.

I agree that skirts are way easier to fit than pants. I have been wearing skirts most of the time this spring and really feel awesome, and I've decided that some additional fall/winter dresses and dress boots are in order. But I'd miss wearing pants if I totally eschewed them from my wardrobe.

Sounds like Shiny and Maya and I have similar preferences. My minimum requirement for front rise on pants is 9", though I prefer 10" if I can get it, and minimum 14-15" in back. The actual rise measurement of my body that I provided above - about 12-13" - is in the front. I'm not sure what my "rear rise" body measurement is - I'd have to get someone else to measure it for me.

In the past I've not had the best luck with BR pants - their high rise pants are often too constricting in the waistband and actually end up pulling/creasing more than low rise pants do, but it's been a few years since I tried their pants. I have a couple of Ann Taylor Lindsay jeans that are okay, but they are definitely "low rise" on my body. I liked their "curvy" cut okay when I first put it on my body, but it stretched out a lot (as does all of their denim) - and they seem to have discontinued the cut anyway. I haven't found a cut of Ann Taylor Loft pants that work on me yet.

Angie, thank you very much for the brand recommendations. I haven't tried any of those yet. Money *is* an object - I'm about to be in between jobs for an indefinite amount of time - but I can budget for a new pair or two at sale prices, at least.
Do you think that the three brands you mentioned are likely to feature in the Nordstrom Anniversary Sale? (Or else I can find the best fit for each of those brands in stores, and scope out the Rack for sales.) Chris and Carissa, thanks for echoing the Classique Entier recommendation.

So as to Carissa's jean recommendations... does this mean that I also may need to think about a future premium jeans purchase? That would be a whole other post or two, but since I don't wear jeans *too* often right now and already have a decent & comfy pair of skinnies, I've wondered if I should just find one nice pair of premium straight-leg or bootcut jeans if I can get a great-fitting pair for a discounted price.

I have the exact same issues as Kari and Maya.

I tend to look for jeans/pants that have at least a 9" rise. I use my belly button as my waistline "marker".

My go-to jeans at the moment are DKNY Soho's. They're not perfect but they're the most flattering fit I've found recently. (I haven't tried premium jeans yet.)

I haven't shopped for dress pants in a long time-- the ones I currently wear (Dillards' store brand) are no longer made in the style I liked. :( I'm looking forward to trying on some of the brands Angie suggested above.

I tried on some BR "Jackson" trouser jeans and they were awful. And these are supposedly their high-rise line. I do think the particular style I tried on was meant to be very tight around the crotch/thigh area, though. Maybe if I tried a regular bootcut style, I'd get a better fit.

Someone asked if we measure before trying on. For me, the answer is yes. I sew some of my own clothes so I'm very familiar with my own measurements. However, since measurements can vary with the style of the garment and the type of fabric used, I think it's important to think in ranges of measurements, rather than strict numbers. For example, I am willing to try on pants with waistbands as much as 2" smaller than my actual waist (a.k.a. belly-button-line) measurement.

Rise measurements usually remain constant, although you might want a longer measurement in dress pants than in jeans due to the looser fit.

FYI, I'm pretty good at fitting my own sewn clothes and I still have problems with my custom-fitted pants sliding down when I walk or sit. I think Carissa is right about the pants not having a true waist indentation to hang from.

Oh, you were asking about pants and not jeans!

For pants, I have great luck with BR Martin's. In fact, I think nearly all of my dress slacks are that brand and style. The waistband is wider and hits right at the belly button, so 9 inches. The Martin comes in varying legs - wider leg, something slimmer, etc. So try on more than one pair.

I do believe they've changed the Martin in the past few years. I used to love the Harrison, which was high-waisted. They rarely offer the Harrison's now. I was disappointed about that, until I realized they had raised the Martin waistband up just a bit - enough to make them wearable for me!

The other brand of dress pants I love are Tahari - you can often get these at TJMaxx and Marshall's. But these may be better for those of us who don't have much of a butt (I recall Nicole loved this brand too).

Maya - my ideal back rise is only 11 inches! 14-15 would give me major saggy butt syndrome. :-(

Re: anchoring: I would still not want a 12 inch front rise, even if that hits at the narrowest part of my torso. I think a waistband that high would then cut into my rib cage when I sat down. 9-10 inch is 3 inches lower than my waist, but right on my belly button. Pants with this rise stay on and stay put just fine, and are quite comfortable.

All of this talk is giving me a stomach ache remember so many years of ill fitting jeans made for women, with a waist band that was too tight and hip shape that was way to curvy for me. Thankfully those days are over even if pants shopping is still a chore and not a perfect science.
I am 5'8" and have a long torso, but I can fit only one hand and 2 fingers from uner bust to the smallest curve of my waist. No wonder I was so uncomfortable in pants made for someone with a waist and crotch point much shorter. It is very difficult to measure the body and come up with the same numbers each time but today it looks like I measure more than 13 " from crotch point (wherever that is) to the smallest curve of my waist. Being so long in that area is something I have just learned about myself and now I know why over the years I've had the pants seams going up my rear and tight waistbands making it uncomfortable to move or sit. I have opted for men's jeans with the lower waist band in the days before the lowrise jeans for women. I always said I was built like a boy and boy's clothes fit me better. So evidently my body issues are not in the horizontal way, but in the way things are stacked vertically. My bra straps are always lengthened out all the way so I am long in that area too.
Sorry if I hijacked your thread Kari. I know your issues are a real concern and it seems we have the same high waistline.
You look very good in the pictures. You have a beautiful and shapely figure. Looking at you one would never know that you have fit issues or any problems regarding your figure. I guess finding out we have a high waist has shined a light on a question or two for us.
http://i477.photobucket.com/al.....0_0842.jpg
Proof that the space between curve and crotch is very long. Why didn't I ever notice this before?

CE (classique entier) will have trousers in anniversary. Also they go on sale pretty regularly, you can check thier site. Note: classique entier *atelier* (available in studio 121) may be cut slightly different than the brand available in the individualist department.

Kari, you need the CR/BH classic white shirt and a pair of premium denims. That would take you straight through the fall. I'm thinking of having a sale on our line, I'll keep you posted.

Christopher Blue is a good moderate rise jean as well, and Cj by Cookie Johnson. Both at Nordstrom.

Kari - I have the same issue with being short waisted but having a long rise measurement and have much difficulty finding trousers and jeans to fit. I need a 10" rise in the front to be comfortable although sometimes I will settle for a bit less because the longer rise is scarce. I am also looking for premium jeans so I'm taking notes from the comments to your thread. Since you may be between jobs for a while, you may be interested in a non-premium jean I found that works very well for me. It's the Levi 512 style. It's a bootcut and comes in a variety of washes. I think I have a straighter hip area than you, but these jeans are very stretchy and I think they might work for you. The front rise is very comfortable for me and I haven't had issues with excessive stretching out after wearing. I usually get mine at Kohl's and they're less than $40 and on sale for less than that quite often. I also think Macy's carries this style.

Thanks for bringing this up,Kari.I have the same issues with trousers and jeans.Now I know that I am not the only one with these issues.I need a front rise of 10".I recently purchased a pair of Kasper jeans at Dillards and they fit me well.I did have a pair of Nine West jeans that had a higher rise but now its a size too big for me.
Maya,I do have the same issue with the waistband sliding down below my tummy.I wonder why that happens.And wearing a belt to keep it in place is just not comfortable when I am constantly bending over to pick my son.The Kasper jeans also slide down about 1" but its still better than the other pairs that I own.
I prefer going a size up for trousers just so that the rise is comfortable.
Vani,I do agree with you that we can customize all pieces of clothing in India but buying trousers and jeans has always been a nightmare for me.Maybe coz rise is difficult to alter unlike waist and length.

OK, I just went to Nordstrom today and tried the trouser jean from Cj by Cookie Johnson. Highest rise & best fitting jean I've ever worn, I think. They're $200 so I haven't purchased them.

I’m glad the CJ jeans fit, Carissa! They have not worked on any of my clients yet.

Carissa, I have not heard of that brand. Are the Cj initials for something or do I ask for Cj by Cookie Johnson? I want to try them. Are they for curvy hips? I am not curvy but have a short waist, I just found out at the age of 55. We never stop learning about ourselves. I've been learning some pretty weird things lately, like one ear sticks out more than the other. You'd think I would have noticed that sooner. I digress.

I like Levi 512's as well. Since Levi changed all their womens numbering it is confusing though. 525's have a 10"rise and i have a couple of those. Think they may not label that way anymore? Obviously Levi is not "premium" but they are a classic and if they fit, can be a reasonable addition to denim wardrobe.

Kari, I have the same issue and have a hard time finding jeans that are the correct rise. Of course, being short-waisted the advice is always to wear low rise in order to make your torso look more proportionate but this gives me a major muffin top!!

Through trial and error I have figured out that the ideal rise would be 9.5 on me. If I go too much higher than about 10 in, it can be uncomfortable when I sit down and it makes my belly pouf out so I have a pretty narrow window I have to work with when it comes to pants/jeans. I am petite but I sometimes will go ahead and buy regular sizing and hem which gives me higher rise than buying pants in petite sizing.

Joe's Muse have a 9.5in rise and look O.K. on me but someone mentioned that it can flatten out the butt and I have to admit, I didn't look much at the rear view when I last tried them on and I certainly don't want my butt to look any flatter than it already is so I am back to the drawing board. I don't have any premium denim - all the ones that I have ever tried on have too low of a rise and I don't want to spend that kind of money unless they are perfect! My white BR jeans are O.K. and otherwise I have a rag tag collection from BR, J crew, Gap, ON, & AT - none of which are perfect.

In terms of pants, I seem to have much less trouble since pant rises are usually higher. I'm also very straight on the bottom (relatively narrow hips) and it seems like so many pants are cut for rectangles rather than pears which makes no sense since most women are pears. Like Shiny, the BR Martins are my favorite - they fit consistently well on me. I think they are cut for straighter body types so you might want to try the Jackson which I think is their curvier cut. The Gap essential trousers also work for alot of people so you might try those.

Gosh, I had no idea how common this issue is. Please no worries about "hijacking" the thread - the entire discussion is helpful because it's making me understand *why* I'm having such a hard time finding pants that work. Thank you so much to all of you who have chimed in with suggestions or sharing your similar fit challenges.

By the way, to clarify: I am searching for both good trousers AND jeans since I have the same fit issue on the waistband with both. Generally jeans tend to be more low-rise and stiffer/less forgiving at the waist than trouser material, but they can also stretch a bit to accomodate my hips, whereas trousers need to be nearly perfect or tailored to get a great fit. Sorry that I was so un-specific.

I do have a round "bubble butt" - it runs in the family - but since my hips are round, I'd still rather have my butt look nice and shapely. I'm more concerned about overall fit.

So to summarize: my pant wish list is a pair of darker denim jeans that are straight-leg or a slight bootcut with a 9-10 inch rise in front and a pair of dressier trousers, preferably lined wool if I can find it, with a thick waistband that has some stretch to it.

And my "homework" is to try on:
Trousers - Classique Entier, Facconable, Wowyn, Banana Republic Martin or Jackson fit
Jeans - Joe's Muse, CJ by Cookie Johnson, Christopher Blue, Levi 512s, Kasper
(Any others to add to the list?)

Carissa - your classic white shirt has actually been on my wish list since Nicole initially posted her review. I've been planning for it for a fall purchase, but it would be awesome to know if you have any upcoming sales planned!

P.S. San, thank you for your comment about not being able to tell that I have fit issues. (You are always so kind and affirming!)
That's wonderful & relieving to know that it doesn't show as much when I wear the right clothes. If I had ever posted a dreaded "body type analysis" picture in form-fitting clothing, it would be painfully obvious.

Kari, I am a bit late to this thread, but just wanted to say that I have measured up and I am another one with a long rise - but in my case I have a long waist as well.
I measured my 1999 black trousers (pre-hipster), which sit on my waist and they are 11 1/2" in the front and 15" in the back. It may be old fashioned but I love the feel of trousers worn this high - but I haven't bought any dress pants since these ones!
All the best with you "homework"!

San,

Cj by Cookie Johnson is supposed to be cut for the curvy woman (I guess athletic as opposed to straight?), but the straight leg Faith style fit me similar to my AG Club and Joe's Muse. The trouser however, so high waisted. It rocked from the front, but from the back I'm sure my arse looked a mile long. Thus they would look great with a jacket and a top that tucked in.

I am not exceptionally curvy.

See this article: http://online.wsj.com/article/.....26117.html

The author has actually purchased our shirt.

Thanks for attaching the article Carissa. They are made for curvy women and I am not at all. However I do have a curvy daughter, maybe they will be a good fit for her.

I am so sorry, I didn't even see that this thread had continued after my last reply. Anne, thank you for piping in, and I appreciate your encouragement. Once I have a chance to spend some time at Nordstrom trying on different styles, I'll be sure to update how it turned out.

Reactions to high-waisted pants are funny - so many people assume that all high-waisted pants are going to look like "mom jeans", when that's really not the case if they are the right kind of jeans on someone with a long waist or rise. (Well, they probably would look like "mom jeans" if I bought pants with a high enough rise to touch my natural waist, but still.) Regular rise pants are basically "low rise" on me.

Great article, Carissa! I will definitely give that brand a try, although I would have to look for a super sale in order to afford a pair. Thanks so much for sharing.