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Any solution other than cosmetic surgery?

Janet

(website)

Veteran

OK, ladies, I'm opening this up for discussion and feedback, because it's starting to bother me more and more, and it's not going to get better. Laying this out here makes me feel a bit vulnerable, but I feel better about asking you all for advice here on the more private "off topic" forum than on the general forum.

The one aesthetic thing about my aging self that bothers me to distraction is my jawline. I suppose it's just hereditary, but the sagging is really making me feel like I look older than I am when I don't smile. And I can't go around grinning my face off all the time.

The lines from the edges of my mouth down to my chin and the emerging jowls are my main concern. Is there anything that anyone has had success with, other than a facelift? I hate to go through invasive surgery for something so vanity-driven. I wouldn't rule it out, I'm just scared. I just don't know.

In this pic, I actually am smiling a little, just with lips closed, but you can see what I'm talking about. If I don't smile at all, it's serious Resting Bitch Face and I look awful. I don't want to look like a mean old woman just because I'm not smiling.

Do any of you have any first or secondhand knowledge or experience with any treatments for this issue? Thank you!

ETA: When I don't smile, you can also really see the asymmetry in my face. Everything about my right side is more droopy. Cosmetic surgery could raise that eyelid and eyebrow too, I'm sure, but the idea of operating around my eyes is especially scary to me!

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79 replies

Latest reply was from April

kkards

Veteran

No ideas but I'm going to follow this as I'm had 2nd chin since my early 40s., and it just seems to be getting droopery every year

Anonymous

Janet, this is such a loaded topic, and the only reason I'm chiming in here is because I feel like I've read , listened to and seen or had done just about everything . I have one word: Botox.

I have a close girlfriend who has your kind of skin and face, with the same issues you talk about. Botox can "fix" the drooping quite easily , and same with the jawline issues. This friend of mine gets Botox done a few times a year, mainly around her jawline. Botox around the eyes and mouth gives a lifting effect as well as a smoothing one and is not invasive or very painful in the big picture of things. I used to get it done around my eyes and on my upper lip (I have ridiculous lip lines - you'd think I was a smoker or something ) - I don't anymore, but it sure worked well.

catgirl

Veteran

Janet, I honestly would not notice a THING wrong with your face, nor do I feel it's more obvious now that you've pointed it out.

I recently became obsessed with the "parentheses" around my mouth, and told my husband and son so. They laughed at me for days, pointing out that everyone has these. And it's true - it's just that once you're aware of something on yourself, you can't unsee it.

I also have a droopy eyelid, which gets worse when I'm tired.

There are facial exercises you can do, and I think MsMary has had some surgery that she shared on here and can probably tell you about.

A friend of mine had several minor facial procedures done without telling anyone and was sorely disappointed when no one noticed - although she herself sees a huge difference. I'm not against surgery at all, but I share this story because I think you need to parse out whether it would be for your own eyes - because we truly are our own worst critics.

Anonymous

Hi Janet, I have the same issues, only worse because I'm older than you. I'm getting cosmetic surgery in a couple of weeks to fix my problems (jowls, loose neck skin, droopy, baggy eyes). I'm also scheduled for Botox after the surgery. People in my family don't age well, and I plan on being around for a good while, and I want to look good, so there you go. It's funny, this stuff doesn't bother me at all when I see it on other people, but I don't like it on myself. It just doesn't go with how I feel inside. The way I see it, I maintain and repair everything else in my life (car, house, pets), so why not my face? Of course, it's not something to be undertaken lightly, but I'm happy with my decision. My husband said he likes my face the way it is, but I'm betting he's going to like the new one even better! I took a lot of time to research who I wanted to do it, and I'm confident that I'll be happy with the results, too. But whatever you decide to do, you will always be fabulous!

catgirl

Veteran

Xtabay, can I ask how old you are? And how you decided on what procedures to have?

Mochi

Veteran

It's funny. I thought Resting Bitch Face just had to do with how your features naturally are, rather than them becoming "bitchy" as you age. (General "you"--not you, Janet.)

Yes, this is a topic that's beyond loaded. I have a very good friend who had a "drive-through" facelift (no overnight stay at a hospital). It was much cheaper for her, but the results will last a few years as opposed to longer--I'm not sure how much longer. She had her chin (really, the saggy skin under neath it) lifted, and her eyelids done. She is a tango teacher so I get it, she needs to project a youthful appearance for professional reasons.

I also don't see you as having issues with aging, more than anyone else. But we are all hard on ourselves. I'll follow along and see what everyone else has to say.

Janet

(website)

Veteran

OK, you all are THE BEST. This is why I love YLF. Solid information and therapeutic responses from people I trust. No judgment. Thank you!

kkards, I too have had the beginnings of this for many years -- but now it's starting to become more pronounced (I think hitting menopause and the corresponding loss of estrogen is helping the process along, unfortunately). I hope this thread helps you too!

Lisa, I had always just thought Botox was for getting rid of fine lines (i.e., on the forehead, which I also have but hide with bangs ;-)). I did not know it could be used for these issues as well. Very interesting. Part of me is also scared of injecting botulism into my face, and my surgeon friend would probably discourage me (she is very low-maintenance herself), but I wouldn't rule out trying it. Oh, and I have the lip lines too! Also quite a hereditary thing -- my mom quit smoking before she had me, and she still developed those lines as she aged. Mom was beautiful, but she also had the jawline issue and used to joke around about getting her face "done," pulling her skin back gently to smooth out the jawline. My sister has the same issues, and she is 10 years my senior. She had a consultation with a cosmetic surgeon years ago, but they would not consider surgery for her unless she quit smoking. Ironically, now that's she's been smoke free for over four years, she doesn't have the disposable income to pursue elective surgery now.

Una, I do remember that Mary had a procedure, and if she doesn't chime in here, I may PM her to learn more about her experience. Yes, I have the parenthesis! My husband says he loves how I look regardless, but when I smooth back my jawline, he tells me that if I really want to do something about it, to go for it, and he will be completely supportive. I don't really want to do this for people to notice some difference in me -- it would be for myself. In fact, I don't want people to think, "hey, she had work done!" I'd rather they think, "she looks good -- life must be treating her well."

Xtabay, I feel exactly the same way! It's funny, in some ways I feel like I'm aging well (I'm healthy and more fit than I was 10 years ago), but in others, not so much. Even though I mentioned how my mom had this same jawline issue, people guessed her as easily 10 years younger than her real age, right up until her death at age 80. I hope all goes beautifully with your procedure, and I would love to know how it goes for you and what your experience is like, if you would be generous enough to share with me. Like Una, I would also be curious to know about the process that led to your decision on the procedures.

Again, thank you, thank you, thank you. It means a lot to me to get your honest and constructive responses!

Anonymous

Alaskagirl, I'm over 50...and that's all I'll admit to!

I had a consultation with the surgeon I selected, and he is the one who told me what needed to be done to achieve the results that I wanted. He's done literally thousands of these, and knows his stuff. The people he works on don't look crazy or strange afterwards, which is the main reason I picked him. He also is one of a group of local physicians who travels to third-world countries to repair cleft palates on children. I liked seeing that on his resume.

Janet

(website)

Veteran

Nancy, I've always had RBF! It just seems to be getting more pronounced as the downward lines sort of emphasize the effect.

In general, I feel OK about aging. I'm not wild about all the visual evidence, but I also don't want to do anything to change my appearance drastically. I still want to look like *me.* No "Real Housewives" look for me, thanks!

I feel a bit conflicted about it. For one thing, I don't like that I'm so vain that this stuff bothers me, but there it is. I don't need to look "younger" for my profession or anything like that. This is purely a first world issue, and I'm well aware of how privileged I am to even consider this. But if I'm going to consider it, I think sooner is better. I mentioned it to my surgeon friend a few years ago, and she said if I did want to do it, wait until after I turn 50, and well, here I am…

Angie

(website)

Fashion Stylist

Janet, I've met you in person and see nothing but a beautiful woman inside and out. I don't want to invalidate your feelings at all, but wanted to reassure you that I don't see what you see. Things look very different to people on the outside, and I'm high fiving, Una.

I went to see an eyelid specialist in January because my one eyelid kept on drooping - and I thought that there was a problem with my eye. Long story short, it turns out it's nothing more than the aging process and the specialist recommended cosmetic surgery and eating no salt. I haven't changed my diet because I think the way I eat is very good. I will not be having cosmetic surgery to fix my eyelids either. My other eyelid began drooping a few months ago, and now my eyelids droop symmetrically. I'm at peace with these changes in my body, just as I am peace with the hectic spider veins on my legs.

Xtabay, please know that I respect your decision to have cosmetic surgery too. I am pro choice on everything, and wish you the very best.

Anonymous

Janet, I will keep you posted. Of course, if you want to ask any questions, please feel free to email me privately. Wish me luck!

Janet

(website)

Veteran

Angie, thank you. No, I don't believe you are trying to invalidate my feelings at all! I was also a little afraid people might think I'm just fishing for compliments and reassurance that I don't need to do anything. I like a little positive feedback as much as anyone, but I don't feel the need to do that -- I genuinely am interested in honest feedback, and I really appreciate that all of the responses in this thread are completely in that realm. I also chuckled a little bit realizing that even though you've met me in person a few times, it's now been a couple of years, and I am seeing changes since then (once again, I'm sure brought on by hormonal changes).

As a fellow fair-skinned child of Dutch heritage, I share your acceptance of my spider veins. I also think we have some similarity in the shape of our eyes -- a slightly prominent eyelid, which makes the bit of droop (when it happens) a bit more obvious, even if it is only to ourselves. I certainly have not noticed it on you. I am not terribly inclined to have surgery on my eyelids unless there is a medical reason for it.

Thanks again! XO!

Anonymous

Further to the Botox solution....yes, injections at the corners of the mouth or eyes lift that area up a bit - just by the mere act of freezing those muscles. I have major resting bitch face too - always have - and when I had this done (it was just using up the rest of a vial that the doctor was using on my upper lip) it did change the way my mouth looked. I don't care enough about it anymore to keep doing it - as Botox is a never-ending money pit ....and to what end? Funny, I cared more about that stuff when I was 45 than I do now. I think if I had unlimited cash, I'd be getting fillers injected into my upper lip (that worked better than Botox for the lines above my lips, btw) but at the cost it is now, I'm not ($400 a vial, or more now I think) . I think we all can do whatever we want without apologizing for it or feeling vain /silly. It's no-one's business other than our own, is my theory

Angie

(website)

Fashion Stylist

HAH. Janet. You make me laugh! YES. We have big eyes with prominent lids - so when they droop a little, it's quite noticeable. It is what it is, and thanks for "not noticing".

As for the spider veins, I'm very grateful that Greg likes my legs just the way they are. I have friends whose SO's make them feel less than fab about it - which makes me sad. I'm sure your Jamie loves you just the way you are too.

I also didn't think for a second that you were fishing for a compliment. Not at all! You are looking for information, and nothing more than that. It's all good.

As for Magical Mary - who I'm sure will not mind me speaking for her here in her absence - she had cosmetic surgery because she was left with "hanging skin" after major weight loss (went from a size 14P to a size 4P). No amount of exercise can fix that after a certain age when the skin is no longer elastic. (If at any age). It makes complete sense to have that surgery, doesn't it.

Angie

(website)

Fashion Stylist

Lisa, that's another important point to consider. Botox, and cosmetic surgery in general, can be a never ending money pit. You have to have the discipline to stop, or be able to afford it.

kellygirl

Veteran

Great question and thanks for asking. I'm chiming in to agree with Una that I don't see what you see even after you try to point it out. All I see are your lovely eyes! I'll be fifty in a little over a year and I *might* consider having some work done if my chin(s)/jowls continues their journey south Good luck!

Peri

Veteran

I can relate to this so much...this is my main aging issue also. I always heard the expression, that you are either a wrinkler or a sagger, and now I understand it exactly. I have very few wrinkles but I'm definitely droopy.

Have you considered Voluma? They can fill up your cheek bones a bit and that lifts the jaw line. I had it done in January and liked the results very much. I don't look as gaunt anymore. She told me I would probably want more later, and I sort of do, because the jowls are still there. She is also talking to me about Sculptra, which I had never heard of. Anyway, no decisions yet.

I feel better about these things than actual surgery. They just feel safer and easier to me. And I say, do whatever you want. There is no need to feel quilty, just as there is no need to do anything at all if you don't want to. People get in each other's business just too much! Live and let live.

MsMaven

Veteran

My advice is to go see a dermatologist or plastic surgeon for a consultation. I had a problem with the corners of my mouth because of the drooping, which meant I leaked saliva at times and the corners would get irritated and cracked. It drove me nuts until the dermatologist advised me to get fillers. I had fillers for several years--usually twice a year was enough--until I got crowns on three of my front teeth. The drooping and lines comes about in part because the enamel on the teeth wears down over the years. The new crowns made quite a difference. No more filler and no more leaking lips. Not at present.

I still get a bit of botox on the line between the eyes. I forget what they call it, "rabbit" something, but I started getting it in my mid-thirties. It made me look like I was frowning. The botox gives me a pleasanter expression and it is subtle. I don't have that frozen forehead look.

By the way, you look great to me. If you decide you want to do something, explore the less intrusive alternatives. You have time to make the right decision.

Anonymous

This http://www.frownies.com . I have never used these, but I know someone who has used these for years and they really work.

Adelfa

Veteran

I had both my eyes done in 2008 because the eyelids had drooped so far that my vision was affected. I was super happy with the results, cosmetically and functionally. Then in 2014 one eye started to droop again quite a bit and I was advised to have surgery again. Different city, different doctor. It didn't go as well this time. The recovery was more difficult and my eye looked strange for a really long time (this was when I quit wearing contacts entirely and started hiding behind thick framed glasses with frames that bisected my eyelid). When the eye finally started looking normal, it still drooped.

So, surgery can be great. Or it can be not great. My great surgery was done by an ophthalmologist in private practice in a town in the middle of nowhere. My not great surgery was done by the department head of plastic surgery in a major hospital in a major metropolis. Oh also, this doctor poked me in the eyeball with the needle (I'm okay).

It scares me what a crapshoot it all is. These days it's really hard for me to see in pictures the way my face has aged so I totally get that. I think it's also hard that so many people do get surgery that we don't get to compare ourselves against other women aging without intervention.

Basically this surgery question is one more way that women can't win 100%. It is a difficult feminist issue and as you're facing it you have my complete support.

Nebraskim

Veteran

I, too, am getting the lines from the corners of my mouth down to my chin. My late father had them and he called it "puppet mouth." And I, too, have one droopy eyelid (my eyes are Asian, so I have one that has more of a fold than the other), just like my father did. He ended up having eyelid lift surgery at age 66 as he could barely see. The puppet mouth does bother me and if it gets really bad, I will probably have a filler injected. I've seen Facebook ads for some sort of tape that you can put on the eyelid to raise temporarily it somehow and I may try that to see how I would look.

catgirl

Veteran

Adela, so true! I remember seeing an article about a model along the lines of "see how good 50 can look!" And the entire thing turned out to be about the cosmetic surgery the model had to look like a 30 year old. It's one reason I decided to let my hair grow in grey - if we don't see other women around us aging naturally, it's no wonder we feel there's something wrong with us for having wrinkles and lines and grey.

No judgment on anyone's choices, just my personal battle - it's in my nature to rebel at being told how I "should" age.

Honestly people who are totally unblemished after a certain age freak me out a little.

UmmLila (Lisa)

Veteran

Janet, those are the issues that bug me about myself as well -- seeing jowls and drooping eyelids. I'm reluctant to do anything that involves significant stay-in-the-house down time. I have a consult scheduled with a dermatologist for Ultherapy next month; it's supposed to be something that tightens droopiness.

Echo

Veteran

First, I want to say that I see what Angie and Una see : a beautiful woman with no drooping or facial lines to speak of. However, I also know that the things we see in the mirror can be very different from what others see.

If you really want a change, I would pursue the least invasive options first (like botox). Fillers can also help to reduce the lines and to give a little more volume, which reduces jowls. My mum had a neck lift, and doesn't regret it a bit. She is now in her mid-seventies and still is glad she had it. However, a neck lift would not fix what you are looking at; a lower face lift would. I do not think you need one at all, but no one else can make the decision for you because it is all about how YOU feel, not necessarily how others see you.

I'd like to hope that I will age "gracefully", but I will not rule out cosmetic procedures. I cannot judge until I am there.

Anonymous

Alaskagirl, who is telling you that you're not allowed to age naturally? Whoever it is, you should tell them to zip it. How we age is a personal decision, and no one should tell you how to do it. And the reverse is true of course, too: don't criticize those who want to have cosmetic procedures done.

catgirl

Veteran

Xtabay, no one says it in that many words- it's more the endless marketing and pressure to stay young and thin. Some marketing is overt ("look 10 years younger with this face cream") and some is more subtle. And I do not think any less of women who choose differently than I do!

I don't want to turn Janet's question into something more complicated, so I will stop at that.

Janet, whatever you decide, you will remain a beauty!

Debbie

Veteran

Janet-I have a friend that has Botox parties every 3-4 months. I have never been because (this is my opinion only) I think it should be done in a Drs office. If I was going to do I would research the providers in my area and determine who you think would be the best.
I have the drooping eyelid problem partly due to wearing contacts forever. My optamologist suggested that I wait on the surgery until it has to happen. I asked about Botox at both his office and the dermatologist both said in my case it is a temporary solution to a permanent problem.
I think you should weigh your options and do what is best for you.

Xtabay-please keep us posted on how you are doing after surgery. I will be thinking about you!

.

Janet

(website)

Veteran

Thanks for all of this good information! Sometimes I forge about this for a while, and then I get back on a kick of wanting to do something about it. I will need some periodontal work this year (ugh), so I wouldn't do anything hastily anyway. Actual medical needs come first, of course. Sheesh, talking about my bad gums and my sagging jaw, I sound like an old lady. Excuse me while I go take my Geritol.

I'm attaching two photos taken seconds apart -- first, smiling as I do for the camera. Second, face completely neutral. That photo will probably self-destruct before the day is over because it makes me feel awful. And this was the second take -- the first time was even more unflattering.

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Janet

(website)

Veteran

Oh, and I don't think I actually said it yet, but Xtabay, I am definitely wishing you luck -- a smooth procedure and a speedy recovery!

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